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[registrars] Fw: [ga] GA summary 2002-02


GA Discussion Summary - Week 2 - highly informative.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thomas Roessler" <roessler@does-not-exist.org>
To: <ga@dnso.org>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:36 PM
Subject: [ga] GA summary 2002-02


> This summary covers the DNSO GA mailing list's discussions during 
> the second week of 2002.  List archives are available online at 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/maillist.html>.  Note that 
> a new volume of the archive has been begun.
> 
> 
> Votes
> 
> 
> The election for the GA representative to the NC Transfer Task Force 
> ended on Thursday 10 January 2002.  The candidates were Dan 
> Steinberg, Eric Dierker, and Jeff Williams.  Dan Steinberg was 
> elected. Details on the vote are available from 
> <http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/2001.GA-b10-outline.html>.
> 
> The vote for the GA chair and alternative chair began Saturday 5
> January 2002, and was finished on 12 January 2002. The candidates
> were Kristy McKee, Thomas Roessler, Alexander Svensson, and Eric
> Dierker. Thomas Roessler and Alexander Svensson were elected.
> Details on the vote are available from
> <http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/2002.GA-b11-outline.html>.
> 
> 
> 
> Topics
> 
> 
> (i) domain-policy archives.  According to a message from Chuck 
> Gomes, in reply to a question from Patrick Corliss, the 
> domain-policy mailing list was shut down by Verisign for legal 
> reasons in May 2001. 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00212.html>
> 
> There was some debate on whether or not this had actually been 
> said before in public.
> 
> (ii) .org divestiture.  Marc Schneiders posted the final version of 
> the final draft of the .org NC task force report, plus a 
> supplemental report from the GA representative which lists remaining 
> concerns with the current text. 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00323.html>, 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00461.html>.
> 
> (iii) Deleted domain name handling.  This was certainly the week's 
> dominant topic.  
> 
> Genie Livingstone gave a summary of data gathered from tracking of 
> expiring domains.  According to him, "most dropped domains in 2001 
> were originally registered at Netsol Registrar. 99.9% of dropped 
> domains were NOT re-registered at Netsol Registrar." "This might be 
> one interesting premise motivating Verisign to try to recapture the 
> monopoly," he writes.  His message goes on to list some more 
> concerns he has with practices of Verisign's registrar division. 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00235.html>.
> 
> Don Brown summarized what he believes to be "a few fundamental 
> hurdles which need to be met before anything else is important" with 
> respect to the waiting list proposal: "1. The WLS proposal 
> essentially puts monopolistic power in the hands of one entity (the 
> Registrar) and thwarts all competition." (I suppose this should have 
> been "the registry".) "2. The theory behind this WLS proposal is 
> that it addresses technical issues, which cannot otherwise be 
> addressed on a technical level." Don then demands that the technical 
> difficulties be solved in a way which does not affect the business 
> model.  As his third point, he notes that "the name space belongs to 
> the public - not the registrars". 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00225.html>
> 
> In a more fundamental part of the thread, Chuck Gomes asks whether
> or not it is "okay for a property manager to have a waiting list". 
> To this, George Kirikos replies: "IF the LANDLORD allowed such a 
> thing in their contract with the property manager, it would be 
> perfectly legitimate. HOWEVER (and read this part, as it's 
> important), it is NOT OK for the property manager to create a 
> waiting list on their own volition and keep all the money for 
> themselves, behind the back of the landlords!" He also notes that 
> "in most cases where there's a waiting list, though, there's a 
> definite end to the lease term." To this, William Walsh follows up 
> to say that "Verisign is creating a situation in which a domain name 
> has more value to the Registry and Registrar if the registrant does 
> NOT renew the domain, and creates a problem in that the Registrar 
> will be incentivized to not provide as strong a renewal notification 
> service as they would otherwise be under incentive to do."
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00220.html>, 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00227.html>, 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00229.html>.
> 
> 
> However, Verisign's proposal wasn't the only one to draw criticism: 
> In fact, the "registry re-circulation system" (RRS), proposed by 
> Peter Girard of Afternic.com, forwarded to the GA on Monday, and 
> covered in the last summary, drew some criticism, too: George 
> Kirikos complains that replacing "one monopoly (Verisign's WLS) with 
> another (a cartel of registrars doing an auction) isn't a solution 
> which promotes competition".  He also notes that the proposal "gives 
> all the value of the domains that are auctioned to the registrars", 
> who have however done nothing to create that value (he says). He 
> then introduces the "Let's make George Kirikos a Multi-Millionaire" 
> proposal.  After all, he didn't do anything to contribute to 
> domains' value, just like registrars....
> 
> In another reply to the Afternic proposal, Darryl (Dassa) Lynch 
> writes: "I can't see any reason for Registrars or the Registry to be 
> benefiting from the consumer market value for renewed/deleted 
> domains."
> 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00165.html>,
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00167.html>, 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00168.html>.
> 
> 
> A comment from Ron Wiener of Snapnames.com (the folks who own the 
> technology Verisign has licensed for the WLS) was forwarded by Ross 
> Wm. Rader.  One of his points is this: "It seems to me that there is 
> a distinction between the WLS (as proposed) and the RRS (as 
> proposed), in that the WLS allows registrars to capture "backup 
> demand" for any name throughout the entire year. The RRS only allows 
> the capture of demand during a portion of the 45-day grace period 
> window, which inherently means it would be primarily of interest to, 
> and accessible to, speculators, not mainstream consumers." 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00186.html>
> 
> 
> Rick Wesson has asked the community to develop a "concise list of 
> requirements for proposals to solve the issues with a registry 
> deleting domains in batch".  He hopes for a consensus document on 
> the requirements to be used when proposals are evaluated.
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00176.html>
> 
> In reply to this, George Kirikos lists various requirements, two of 
> which are these: 1. Equal opportunity for any registrar to acquire a 
> deleted name.  "No current business model that is in place must be 
> forcibly required to change [...], unless it can be proven that they 
> have caused the abuse through their choice of business models." 2. 
> "Registrants should continue to have the ability to register an 
> expired name at a registrar's normal price for a brand new 
> registration for ALL deleted names."
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00184.html>
> 
>  From a registrant point of view, Bret Fausett lists six 
> requirements, including: Registrants shouldn't need to pay fees to 
> more than one registrar to get a deleted domain; registrants should 
> be able to place the order with one visit of the registrar's web 
> site; expiration dates listed in the whois should have some meaning; 
> "the current registrant should make his or her decision to renew 
> blind to the value placed on that domain name by prospective 
> registrants".  (I find the last one particularly interesting.) 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00194.html>
> 
> 
> 
> Elliot Noss of Tucows sent a long message to the GA list in which he 
> looks at various aspects of the deleted domains issue.  First, he 
> considers who may claim the right to expired or expiring names.  He 
> concludes that "the competing claims of registries and registrars 
> are likely subordinate to those of registrants," in the end of the 
> day.  "Accordingly, any solution should start with this 
> underpinning," he says.  In the second section of his document, Noss 
> emphasizes that he believes that the issues of registry load and 
> expired/expiring domain allocation should be considered separately, 
> and that the technical side of the problem can be (and actually 
> mostly has been) solved without touching the allocation question. He 
> then elaborates on "the inefficiency of flat pricing", and argues 
> that the combination of flat-priced supply and variable-priced 
> demand has lead to a robust secondary market, and to a "significant 
> amount of the current CNO namespace sitting unused".  He warns that 
> these effects should not be magnified by solutions for the "expiring 
> market".  Noss concludes by stating that the WLS proposal is 
> unacceptable to him, and then suggests what he calls "two important 
> modifications" to Afternic's RRS proposal: Make all names available 
> for bidding, and give the existing registrant an opportunity to 
> accept bids at any time (with registrars and registries getting 
> their share of the money, too). 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00260.html>
> 
> In follow-ups, George Kirikos and Don Brown argue that, if there's 
> no technical need for changing the "expiring market", this market 
> should be left alone for the moment, and more pressing problems 
> should be addressed first.  As Don puts it: "I am in favor of 
> 'healthy' change, but I don't view any change with respect to the 
> after-market to be either healthy or warranted at this time."
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00278.html>
> 
> In another follow-up to Elliot Noss' message, Don Brown points out 
> that part of the process "to introduce more efficiency into the 
> systems and procedures" concerning deleted domain names should be 
> "the adoption of specifications or policy" in the sense of 3.7.5 of 
> the RAA (Registry-Registrar-Agreement):  Such policy does not 
> currently exist.
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00307.html>
> 
> 
> In his comments on Elliot Noss' proposal, Chuck Gomes of Verisign 
> agrees with most of the points Elliot made.  In particular, he 
> "definitely confirms" that the WLS proposal and the technical 
> problems the registry has with deleted domain names are not directly 
> connected, and can be dealt with separately.  However, he believes 
> that the WLS could "still make some positive impact in this regard, 
> but it certainly does not solve the whole problem".  He also points 
> out that, while the registry problems do not affect day-to-day 
> business of registrars anymore, "there has been and continues to be 
> a growing impact on registry operations and registry costs".
> 
> He then suggests that WLS would still be "a valuable service for 
> consumers", and that a 12-month test could be useful.
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00301.html>
> 
> 
> Also on the deleted domains topic, the registrars' constituency held 
> a conference call.  Various draft notes of the conference call are 
> available. 
> <http://www.lextext.com/icann/january2002.html#01102002d>, 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/registrars/Arc01/msg01790.html>, 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/registrars/Arc01/msg01791.html>.
> 
> 
> (iv) Working groups, sublists, etc.  As a spin-off from the deleted 
> domains thread (which, bad enough, seems to have mostly killed that 
> thread), some discussion on working groups and sublists came up, 
> including on-list straw polls on whether or not the GA should start 
> a working group on the deletion issue, or whether people like the 
> WLS.  David Farrar writes about these: "Could I suggest both this 
> poll and the previous one while well intentioned lead to the GA 
> being more dysfunctional.  Many do not subscribe here to see 40 
> people vote on a list." 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00408.html>
> 
> 
> 
>     Announcements from the new Chair and Co-Chair
> 
> 
> In two short messages to the GA list, the new Chair and Alt.Chair 
> have pointed out what their immediate plans are. These include:
> 
>  - Enforce list rules, including the posting limit.  (Alexander will 
>    be the list monitor.)
>  - Try to attract discussions and participants from various 
>    constituencies to the GA.
>  - Concerning GA working groups and sublists, a "show traffic, get 
>    group" policy will be followed for the moment: If sustained 
>    discussions on some topic become too much, and participants desire 
>    it, the chairs will try to organize a new mailing list for these.
>  - Concerning task forces, there's nothing which prevents the GA 
>    members from discussing topics.  According to the "show traffic,
>    get group" policy, "mirror working groups" may be established. 
>    The GA rep to task forces has the responsibility to inform task 
>    force members of the GA's discussions.
> 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00480.html>, 
> <http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc09/msg00484.html>.
> 
> 
> Good night,
> -- 
> Thomas Roessler                        http://log.does-not-exist.org/
> --
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