Re: [ga] [ADMIN] Suspension of Dave Crocker

["Roberto Gaetano" <ga_chair@hotmail.com>]

Leah,

>
>I would normally not respond to this type of post.  However, I must
>take exception to it in that it refers to me.  I would like to know
>when I have broken the rules and to what post you referred your
>targeted remarks.
>
>I believe I objected to the banning of Dave Crocker in light of the
>common nature of his post and that the best method to rid onesself
>of unwanted posts is the "delete" key.  I believe I also said that
>parody of names is somewhat better than out and out slander or
>some of the more angry posts we have seen.
>
>Would you please explain to me where you were headed with your
>reference to me and whether you think perhaps it might have been
>in error?


This looks like the famous "Who's on first?" to me.

>From my point of view, since you address this to me, I mentioned your post 
in the reply to Kevin, saying that when he was quoting Eric thinking that 
the statement he (Eric) made was against Dave Crocker, in reality I 
understood it as a remark on Andy Gardiner (and follow-up post from you).

As this thread develops, the analogy with the Marx' gag (and before somebody 
starts on politics, let me say that I mean the brother Marx, i.e. Chico, 
Harpo and Groucho, not Karl {by Karl I mean Karl Marx, not Karl Auerbach, 
just in case}) gets more evident.

Anyway, I never objected to your posting, I just said that Eric Weisberg was 
referring to you and Andy in 
http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc07/msg00183.html, not to Dave.
Which I believe is a correct interpretation, cross-checking with 
http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc07/msg00176.html and 
http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc07/msg00177.html.

This said, since you ask, let me tell you that IMHO to call people "paid 
disruptors" is far from expressing just a "personal comment on one's 
politics and/or motives", as you claim in 
http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/ga/Arc07/msg00223.html.

Should you be suspended for this?
Not at all (and to the best of my knowledge you weren't).

Was it appropriate to point out that that's not the best way to conduct 
business on the GA list?
Yes. Probably useless, as this will not stop this saga from going on, but 
highly appropriate.

I hope it clears up the matter.

Regards
Roberto



>
>leah
>
> > Fifth or sixth post, I don't think I can let this pass without
> > comment, and since this is the kind of message that makes me *really*
> > angry, I don't think I should answer this tomorrow: either now, or in
> > a couple of days, when I will have the freedom given by the fact of no
> > longer being Chair.
> >
> > Kevin J. Connolly wrote:
> > >
> > >Eric Weisberg <weisberg@texoma.net> wrote:
> > > >Doesn't this discussion violate the same rule as Dave's?
> > > >Shouldn't we discuss substantive issues instead of
> > > >personalities?
> > > >Aren't we threatening the stability and function
> > > >of this assembly by getting off on such tangents?
> > >
> > >Objection:
> > >#1: If you're going to make statements against Mr. Crocker,
> > >have the simple decency and civility to do it when he can
> > >actually respond.
> >
> > The statement was against Andy Gardiner (and Leah, I suppose), exactly
> > making the point that they violate the same rules.
> >
> > >
> > >#2:  What stability? What function? What legitimacy?
> >
> > By indulging in ad-nominem attacks and irrelevant polemics we indeed
> > threaten at least the effectiveness and recognition of this Assembly.
> > I concur with Eric.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >And, while we're on the subject, it begins to look as though
> > >the chair and vice-chair are going to sandbag and stonewall
> > >until Dave's suspension expires by lapse of time.
> >
> > It is I-don't-know-what-time, over here.
> > I have spent the whole morning and good part of the afternoon in
> > meetings for my day job. The little time I had to dedicate to the
> > Internet, I did concentrating on what I thought was the most important
> > problem: the risk of not having proper elections. I called Harald (I
> > pay also my DNSO-related phone calls from my own pocket, as you all
> > know) and discussed *this*, I'm sorry to consider the issue of having
> > or not a properly elected Chairman more important.
> >
> > You have now a proper election process, where you can re-cast your
> > vote, and possibly elect somebody that will give to the GA business
> > the priorities that you wish. Oh, by the way, please elect somebody
> > that will be available to respond to your messages H24, independently
> > of time zones, and of other personal or professional business.
> > Somebody that can dedicate all his/her time to the GA list, that can
> > consider your appeals with the highest priority.
> >
> >
> > Dave should
> > >never have been suspended. His suspension, without good
> > >cause and without a hint of due process, highlights that this
> > >body is in no way representative of the Internet Community.
> > >It is instead a mutual admiration society in which those whose
> > >opinions are disfavored find themselves insulted (heaven
> > >forfend we should return the favor) and worse. I'm surprised at
> > >the delay in reinstating Dave: the injustice of his suspension
> > >should be incontrovertible at this point.
> >
> >
> > Sorry to express a different opinion.
> > It has been for me probably the most difficult decision since in
> > office. And I can easily predict tons of bits flowing from either
> > side, proving that the matter is far from being incontrovertible.
> >
> > Just one last question: why did you not present your candidature?
> >
> > Regards
> > Roberto
> >
> > P.S.: On second thoughts, my previous post about the appeal on Dave
> > should not be counted against the limit, as it was a consequence of my
> > duty as Chair - alternatively, I should have postponed it until
> > tomorrow :>).
> >
> > Roberto
> > Feeling better, and re-gaining his sense of humour
> >
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