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RE: [wg-b] Japanese Sunrise Program

That was four, or was it five, hi-jackings ago. That part of the anatomy
is a little sore right now.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Judith Oppenheimer [mailto:joppenheimer@icbtollfree.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 1:58 PM
> To: 'Hartman, Steve'; 'Joop Teernstra'; 'Mikki Barry'; wg-b@dnso.org
> Subject: RE: [wg-b] Japanese Sunrise Program
> >What ever happened to the idea of the "loyal opposition?"  
> The phrase stood
> >for the principle that each side in a debate were working to ...
> >the overall good.
> Bingo.
> Judith Oppenheimer, 212 684-7210, 1 800 The Expert
> Publisher, <http://www.ICBTollFreeNews.com>
> President, <http://www.1800TheExpert.com>
> Domain Name & 800:  Intelligence, Analysis, Leadership
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-wg-b@dnso.org [mailto:owner-wg-b@dnso.org]On Behalf Of
> Hartman, Steve
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 4:56 PM
> To: 'Joop Teernstra'; 'Mikki Barry'; wg-b@dnso.org
> Subject: RE: [wg-b] Japanese Sunrise Program
> My remark about the Internet was motivated by the observation 
> that people
> have written, and continue to write, things on wg-b that can serve no
> purpose other than provoke hostility and work against finding 
> agreement, and
> which would never be said in face to face discussions between parties
> honestly seeking to settle a dispute.
> What ever happened to the idea of the "loyal opposition?"  
> The phrase stood
> for the principle that each side in a debate were working to 
> a common goal,
> the overall good. Each side may have very different views as 
> to how to get
> there, but they didn't consider each other disloyal or 
> enemies. Much of
> that, it seems, was lost in politics in the last decade; and, 
> much of the
> loyal opposition idea was missing from the wg-b debate 
> earlier this year.
> If each constituency in wg-b points focuses on the worst 
> behavior of the
> members of the other constituencies, and characterizes each 
> constituency by
> its most extreme members, common ground gets ignored.
> Steve
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joop Teernstra [mailto:terastra@terabytz.co.nz]
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 10:01 PM
> To: Hartman, Steve; 'Mikki Barry'; wg-b@dnso.org
> Subject: RE: [wg-b] Japanese Sunrise Program
> At 15:05 6/10/00 -0400, Hartman, Steve wrote:
> >I don't know what the article or what Japan did proves about 
> the Sunrise
> >Proposal, but the reaction of those wg-b members below 
> writing about the
> >matter shows that, like the Japanese discovered hiding on a 
> island years
> >after WW2 ended, they are still fighting the war.
> >
> Steve, do you mean that Victory has already been declared? :-)
> >A question I've thought about alot over the past few months 
> is whether the
> >Internet lends itself to serious debate about deeply felt 
> issues or held
> >beliefs. As difficult as it is to reach consensus on such issues in
> >face-to-face meetings, well established social conventions encourage
> >civility and there are informal and formal rules of 
> procedure that we are
> >accustomed to. The social customs and practices that foster 
> civil behavior
> >in face-t0-face communication are lacking in on-line communications.
> >
> In the real world, when strongly held beliefs are defended , 
> people can be
> a lot less civil than the genteel conversations that we have 
> seen so far in
> WG -B.
> Need I mention Seattle, Melbourne or other places where 
> frustrated people
> end up throwing stones?
> How can people at the receiving end reach "consensus" about 
> what is a naked
> power grab?
> Why is it that  powerful Brands (they can "squash ICANN like a bug"
> according to a less diplomatic Cybersharque) want to write 
> new rules with
> consequences for us all (and great benefits to themselves) instead of
> adjusting themselves and all their existing legal and 
> lobbying power to the
> promises that the Net gives to all, in terms of Brand building?
> Is it too much to come out of the jungle with our hands 
> raised and ask that
> the Famous Names lobby please refrain from abusing their already
> considerable power?
> Perhaps we could reach consensus about that.
> Would he-who-pays-you allow that?
> --Joop Teernstra LL.M.--
> the Cyberspace Association and
> the constituency for Individual Domain Name Owners
> http://www.idno.org