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[comments-whois] Re: ensuring that your voice and input is heard on open comment sites


Jeff,

It would appear that ICANN has been established without
your consent and approval, and all and any constituencies
and assemblies lack any legitimacy to represent genuine
stakeholders, according to your views.

I fail to see how we can sustain any productive dialogue with
such a radical antagonism. While you are entitled to air your
views freely, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from
copying me on them.

Thank you.

Tony Harris

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA" <mcade@att.com>; "DNSO Whois comments list"
<comments-whois@dnso.org>
Cc: "Antonio Harris" <harris@cabase.org.ar>; "Michael D. Palage"
<michael@palage.com>; <ga@dnso.org>; "Don Evans" <DEvans@doc.gov>; "cathy
Handley" <chandley@ntia.doc.gov>; "Nancy J. Victory"
<nvictory@ntia.doc.gov>; "Robin Layton" <RLayton@ntia.doc.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:43 AM
Subject: Re: ensuring that your voice and input is heard on open comment
sites


> Marilyn, Antonio and all assembly members or other interested parties,
>
> Cade,Marilyn S - LGA wrote:
>
> > Dear Mike, Jeff and others
> >
> > This  is a reminder: the WHOIS TF public comment period closes 11/8.
> > We welcome your postings to the site.
>
>   Postings to the site?  I wasn't aware of any such interface.  Postings
> usually go to a E-mail address.  Hence I an forced and/or compelled to
> ask, do you know what you ar talking about or otherwise suggesting?
>
> >  You can post at www.icann.org, click on Announcements, or on
www.dnso.org -- you'll see the site to click on for WHOIS comments.
>
>   Did that already.
>
> >
> >
> > We can make one comment: the TF members have noted that they will turn
to the public comment site for the "authoritative" input.
>
>   Define what is considered "Authoritative".  As I recall there is not
such
> definition that is applicable, and such a term has been argued and debated
> for some time now on and off.  Hence this comment inclusive of this
> term is delinquent of intelligence in this context.
>
> > If you are unable to post to that site, please let Marilyn or Tony know,
or better yet, communicate with your reps on the TF. They will help you.
>
>   Reps?  What Reps?  We have no reps...  Again do you know what you
> are talking about her?  Seem not.
>
> >
> >
> > That way, we can ensure that your inputs and comments are reviewed by
the full TF.
>
>   Why would some "Rep", which does not exist, be needed to insure
> any input is reviewed?  To even suggest such a thing, directly or
indirectly
> implies that input such as I commented upon along with Michael, is
> again going to be intentionally ignored or "Not Reviewed".  Hence again
> supporting Michael's contention and follow on question...
>
> >
> >
> > Marilyn Cade                    Antonio Harris
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Antonio Harris [mailto:harris@cabase.org.ar]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:26 PM
> > To: Jeff Williams; Michael D. Palage
> > Cc: Cade,Marilyn S - LGA; ga@dnso.org; Don Evans; Nancy J. Victory;
> > cathy Handley; Robin Layton
> > Subject: Re: [ga] Michael Palage's Proposed Whois Task Force
> > Recommendations
> >
> > Jeff,
> >
> > If the term "noise" bothers you, the solution is simple:
> >
> > Send your comments to:
> > http://www.dnso.org/dnso/notes/20021015.NCWhoisTF-interim-report.html
> >
> > Attacking people who do volunteer work (a lot of it, by the way),
> > would not appear to serve any useful purpose. If you have better
> > ideas, then submit them ! What more would we want as a task
> > force than to receive them ? As far as what, as co-chair, I "want to
> > hear or read about" thats simply hilarious ! Just try this for an
> > exercise: read the 3300 responses to the Whois survey and
> > see what you can come up with...
> >
> > Tony Harris
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
> > To: "Michael D. Palage" <michael@palage.com>
> > Cc: "Cade,Marilyn S - LGA" <mcade@att.com>; <ga@dnso.org>; "Antonio
Harris
> > (E-mail)" <harris@cabase.org.ar>; "Don Evans" <DEvans@doc.gov>; "Nancy
J.
> > Victory" <nvictory@ntia.doc.gov>; "cathy Handley"
<chandley@ntia.doc.gov>;
> > "Robin Layton" <RLayton@ntia.doc.gov>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:10 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ga] Michael Palage's Proposed Whois Task Force
Recommendations
> >
> > > Michael and all assembly members,
> > >
> > >   Michael, you again bring up yet another good point of concern
> > > that has and continues to plague and discredit the "ICANN Process".
> > >
> > >   As you likely know, I amongst a number other GA participants
> > > have long worried and been frankly quite aware that the "TF method"
> > > of determining policy is a poor one for a number of reasons of which
> > > you again have brought up one.
> > >
> > >   As you also likely also know anything I as spokesman for INEGroup
> > > have put forward to the Whois, and Transfer Task Force has by
> > > Marilyn been, as she herself has stated only considered "Noise"
> > > in her opinion, which is questionable at best.  Hence any public input
> > > through these skewed Task Force Methods or processes is
> > > only what the members or chair's of those task forces WANT to
> > > hear or read about, nothing else.  Hence no good or reasonable
> > > policy can be derived adequately.
> > >
> > >   So unless as you indicate in your comments and observations below,
> > > Michael, a transparent and open discussion and debate for specific
> > > issues such as Whois can be entertained or "Allowed" we as
> > > stakeholders/users will continue to see inadequate or inappropriate
> > > policy for these issues to continue.  For the life of me, I cannot
> > > understand such utter nonsensical approaches of dealing with
> > > issues to policy.
> > >
> > >   I guess this is why just last friday AT&T announced a 5 for 1
Reverse
> > > stock split, Worldcom is in deeper trouble than first even imagined,
> > > and ICANN seeks to choose its BoD members now by and election
> > > committee.
> > >
> > > Michael D. Palage wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear Marilyn:
> > > >
> > > > After three years I think we have moved beyond the formality of
> > addressing
> > > > each other on a last name basis :-)
> > > >
> > > > As you can see from my email header below, I did submit these
comments
> > on
> > > > the "record" to the Whois Task Force on Friday, November 1st. The
fact
> > that
> > > > they were not received raises the question of what other submissions
may
> > > > have also been lost in the mail.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Michael D. Palage [mailto:michael@palage.com]
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 4:18 PM
> > > > To: comments-whois@dnso.org
> > > > Subject: Michael Palage's Proposed Recommendations
> > > >
> > > > Attached please find my proposed recommendations for the Whois Task
> > Force
> > > > based upon my earlier comments to the Task Force,
> > > >
http://www.dnso.org/dnso/dnsocomments/comments-whois/Arc01/msg00012.html
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Michael D. Palage
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Cade,Marilyn S - LGA [mailto:mcade@att.com]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 12:08 AM
> > > > To: Michael D. Palage; ga@dnso.org
> > > > Cc: Antonio Harris (E-mail)
> > > > Subject: RE: [ga] Michael Palage's Proposed Whois Task Force
> > > > Recommendations
> > > >
> > > > Dear Mr. Palage,
> > > >
> > > > May we have your permission to post this particular email to the
WHOIS
> > TF?
> > > >
> > > > Also, as you are aware there is an open comment site. We urge you,
IF
> > you
> > > > are interested in having your comments included in the TF
documentation,
> > to
> > > > post to that site. It can be found at dnso.org, or icann.org, click
on
> > > > announcements.  While we post to the WHOIS TR site, WHEN requested,
we
> > make
> > > > it pretty clear that individuals should take responsibility for
their
> > own
> > > > postings, to open sites.  We urge you to follow the procedures to
ensure
> > > > that your comments are included and available to others.  The TF is
> > > > committed to reading the open comments site.  We have and will
continue
> > to
> > > > advise that we cannot guarantee reading of other lists. We know that
you
> > > > understand the need to ensure a centralized posting site.
> > > >
> > > > We also wish to thank you for attending the public meeting with the
> > > > Registrars/Registries, Sunday in Shanghai. As committed in that
meeting,
> > the
> > > > TF is working toward follow up with the registrars, especially,
shortly.
> > > >
> > > > We hope that you will join that call, as well.
> > > >
> > > > Your thoughtful insights should be part of the "record". We hope you
> > will
> > > > chose to submit your comments [below]  through the formal comment
> > process.
> > > > And, we look forward to your further participation.
> > > > Best Regards, Marilyn Cade                      Antonio Harris=
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Michael D. Palage [mailto:michael@palage.com]
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 4:25 PM
> > > > To: ga@dnso.org
> > > > Subject: [ga] Michael Palage's Proposed Whois Task Force
Recommendations
> > > >
> > > > On October 23rd I submitted my personal comments to the Whois Task
> > Force,
> > > > see
> > > >
> >
http://www.dnso.org/dnso/dnsocomments/comments-whois/Arc01/msg00012.html.
> > > > Listed below are my personal recommendations for the Whois Task
Force
> > based
> > > > upon my earlier comments.
> > > >
> > > > Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Michael D. Palage
> > > >
> > > > Recommendations Preamble
> > > >
> > > > The current Whois system fails to adequately meet the needs and
concerns
> > of
> > > > governments, intellectual property owners, domain name registration
> > > > authorities, as well as consumer and privacy advocacy groups.
Although
> > one
> > > > can attempt to solve certain aspects of the current problems in a
> > piecemeal
> > > > fashion, only a comprehensive bottoms-up review and overhaul is
likely
> > to
> > > > succeed.
> > > >
> > > > ICANN's role in this and other potential global policy issues should
be
> > to
> > > > identify and bring to the table those individuals and parties
> > potentially
> > > > impacted by its processes, particularly those in developing
countries
> > that
> > > > may not have their voices and concerns heard in the current
structure,
> > as
> > > > well as registration authorities that are signatories to bi-lateral
> > > > contracts with ICANN. ICANN's role is not, nor should it be, to
> > artificially
> > > > manufacture consensus under the auspices of Task Forces.
> > > >
> > > > The ICANN Names Council Whois Task Force (Task Force) should be
> > commended
> > > > for its pioneering efforts in starting a constructive dialogue on
some
> > of
> > > > the complex issues surrounding Whois.  However, the Task Force's
failure
> > to
> > > > address certain fundamental issues directly bears upon the validity
of
> > the
> > > > Task Force's ultimate recommendations. In light of these
shortcomings,
> > the
> > > > following recommendations are submitted.
> > > >
> > > > Recommendation 1
> > > >
> > > > Whereas, the Task Force has endeavored over the last twenty (20)
months
> > to
> > > > undertake an analysis of various Whois issues;
> > > >
> > > > Whereas, the Task Force has published an interim report dated
October
> > 14,
> > > > 2002 in which four (4) interim recommendations were put forth for
public
> > > > comment;
> > > >
> > > > Whereas, despite the best efforts undertaken by the Task Force
volunteer
> > > > members, there are certain fundamental aspects that were not
properly
> > > > addressed and which directly bear upon the validity of the Task
Force's
> > > > recommendations, including but not limited to, applicability of
natural
> > and
> > > > local law and their impact on registration authorities that are
> > signatories
> > > > to bi-lateral contracts with ICANN; new market conditions (.NAME);
> > evolving
> > > > technical standards (CRISP); international domain name
considerations;
> > and
> > > > ICANN's Evolution and Reform  Committee calling for more input from
the
> > > > public sector (governments).
> > > >
> > > > Therefore, it is resolved that the Names Council:
> > > >
> > > > Extend it heartfelt appreciation to the members of the Task Force
for
> > their
> > > > diligent and tireless efforts to date;
> > > >
> > > > Immediately dissolve the Task Force;
> > > >
> > > > Reject implementing the proposed recommendation at this time until
> > further
> > > > review can be conducted incorporating those data points not properly
> > > > considered by the Task Force;
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully submit to the ICANN Board that it create a Blue Ribbon
> > Global
> > > > Whois Panel (Panel) to ensure that the viewpoints and concerns of
all
> > > > Internet stakeholders are addressed, with such Panel ideally being
> > composed
> > > > of the following representatives:
> > > >
> > > > GAC Representative: This representative shall provide the Panel with
the
> > > > various viewpoints (consensus if possible) regarding governmental
> > positions
> > > > regarding access and accuracy of Whois data (i.e. data privacy, law
> > > > enforcement, consumer protection, etc.)
> > > >
> > > > ITU Representative: Although the ITU is currently a participating
member
> > in
> > > > the GAC, their experience in two areas would be of particular value
to
> > the
> > > > Panel: (i) in the area of soliciting and representing the viewpoints
of
> > > > emerging countries and economies that may not have a representative
> > voice in
> > > > the current process and (ii) in the area of promoting the role of
ITU
> > Member
> > > > States in the internationalization of domain names and addresses of
> > their
> > > > respective languages.
> > > >
> > > > ICANN Registry Representative: This representative would be tasked
with
> > > > soliciting input from all ICANN accredited registry operators to
provide
> > the
> > > > Panel with firsthand operational considerations.
> > > >
> > > > ICANN Registrar Representative: This representative would be tasked
with
> > > > soliciting input from all ICANN accredited registrars to provide the
> > Panel
> > > > with a better understanding of the legal and technical dynamics of
the
> > > > domain name registration marketplace.
> > > >
> > > > ccTLD Registry Operator/Administrator: This representative would be
> > tasked
> > > > with soliciting input from the ccTLD registry operator/administrator
> > > > regarding Whois policies and national laws.
> > > >
> > > > Civil Libertarian: This representative would be tasked with
representing
> > the
> > > > interests of individual domain name registrants, specifically with
> > regard to
> > > > a wide range of privacy issues.
> > > >
> > > > IETF/IAB Technical Representative: This representative would be able
to
> > > > provide the Panel with insight regarding standards efforts currently
> > > > underway in connection with Whois (CRISP) and international domain
> > names.
> > > >
> > > > Multi-National Business Representative: This individual would be
tasked
> > with
> > > > soliciting input from large multi-national businesses regarding
concerns
> > > > about diverse and divergent Whois practices and the importance of
Whois
> > in
> > > > law enforcement and intellectual property rights.
> > > >
> > > > SME Business Representative: This representative would be required
to
> > > > solicit and provide the viewpoint of small and medium enterprises
> > regarding
> > > > Whois considerations.
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully submit to the ICANN Board that ICANN extend invitations
to
> > > > potential Panel participants to prevent any partisan politics that
may
> > exist
> > > > within the various ICANN constituencies. In the alternative, ICANN
> > should
> > > > also consider outsourcing the coordination of this Panel to a
neutral
> > third
> > > > party organization with expertise in this subject matter similar to
the
> > work
> > > > undertaken by the World Intellectual Property Organization in
connection
> > > > with the initial draft of the Uniform Dispute Resolution Policy
(UDRP).
> > One
> > > > potential neutral third party with expertise in this area would be
the
> > > > Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).
> > > >
> > > > Recommendation 2
> > > >
> > > > Whereas, the Task Force has endeavored over the last twenty (20)
months
> > to
> > > > undertake an analysis of various Whois issues;
> > > >
> > > > Whereas, the Task Force has published an interim report dated
October
> > 14,
> > > > 2002 in which four (4) interim recommendation were put forth for
public
> > > > comment;
> > > >
> > > > Whereas, despite the best efforts undertaken by the Task Force
volunteer
> > > > members, there are certain fundamental aspects that were not
properly
> > > > addressed and which directly bear upon the validity of the Task
Force's
> > > > recommendations, including but not limited to, applicability of
natural
> > and
> > > > local law and their impact on registration authorities that are
> > signatories
> > > > to bi-lateral contracts with ICANN; new market conditions (.NAME);
> > evolving
> > > > technical standards (CRISP); international domain name
considerations;
> > and
> > > > ICANN Evolution and Reform  Committee calling for more input from
the
> > public
> > > > sector.
> > > > Whereas, notwithstanding the aforementioned shortcoming of the Task
> > Force's
> > > > efforts, there were several concepts would could be implemented in
the
> > short
> > > > term that would increase the accuracy of the Whois data.
> > > >
> > > > Therefore, it is resolved that the Names Council respectfully
request
> > that
> > > > the ICANN Board take the following actions:
> > > >
> > > > ICANN approve a standardize Whois Accuracy Inquiry Notice (WAIN)
> > prepared by
> > > > ICANN accredited registrars in consultation with domain name
> > representatives
> > > > regarding inquires about false or inaccurate Whois data;
> > > >
> > > > ICANN assist in translating the WAIN into as many languages as
possible;
> > > >
> > > > ICANN require that registrars shall send the standardized WAIN to
their
> > > > domain name registrant after receiving a notification of potentially
> > false
> > > > or inaccurate Whois data from ICANN's Internic.net whois portal (or
> > > > equivalent);
> > > >
> > > > ICANN accredited registrars shall be required to send any WAIN in
the
> > > > language(s) of the registration agreement, along with links to
> > translations
> > > > of the WAIN in other languages;
> > > >
> > > > The current 15 day time frame for registrants to respond to
inquiries
> > > > regarding the accuracy of the Whois data shall be extended to 30
days to
> > > > provide the registrant and registrar adequate time to investigate
and
> > > > respond to inquiries;
> > > >
> > > > Registrars shall be required to comply with ICANN instructions
regarding
> > the
> > > > docketing software maintained in connection with the Internic.net
whois
> > > > portal (or equivalent);
> > > >
> > > > Registrars that are unable to verify the accuracy of the Whois data
or
> > fail
> > > > to receive instructions from the registrant within thirty (30) days
> > shall
> > > > place the domain name of hold (i.e. the name is removed from the
zone
> > file
> > > > and it will not resolve) indefinitely;
> > > >
> > > > Registrar shall not remove the domain name from hold status or renew
the
> > > > domain name until registrant has provided documented proof which the
> > > > registrar shall be required to retain;
> > > >
> > > > In the situation where the registrar receives a secondary inquiry
> > regarding
> > > > the accuracy of Whois data for a specific domain name, the Registrar
> > shall
> > > > require documented proof from the domain name registrant within the
30
> > day
> > > > time frame or have the domain name places on indefinite hold in
> > accordance
> > > > with the process described above;
> > > >
> > > > ICANN shall immediately modify the Internic.net Whois portal to
require
> > > > third parties submitting Whois accuracy inquiries to acknowledge
that
> > the
> > > > submission is not intended to interfere with the lawful operations
of
> > the
> > > > domain name registrant or registrar;
> > > >
> > > > ICANN shall immediately modify the Internic.net Whois portal to
require
> > that
> > > > third parties provide additional contact information to allow the
domain
> > > > name registrant or registrar to initiate legal action against the
third
> > > > party if such submission was designed to tortuously interfere with
their
> > > > legal activity.
> > > >
> > > > ICANN's General Counsel and Staff are instructed to move forward
with
> > > > implementation of the above referenced recommendations as follows:
> > > >
> > > > Option 1:
> > > >
> > > > A bi-lateral amendment to the ICANN Registrar Accreditation
Agreement
> > (RAA)
> > > > executed by ICANN and every accredited registrar. However, if one or
> > more
> > > > registrars fail to execute this bi-lateral amendment proceed to
Option 2
> > > > below.
> > > >
> > > > Option 2:
> > > >
> > > > Establish a dialog with the registrar community to see if consensus
> > exists
> > > > among the accredited registrars about adopting the above referenced
> > > > recommendations within the context of a Code of Conduct. If there is
> > > > consensus among the registrars about adopting this proposal as a
Code of
> > > > Conduct, this Code of Conduct would then be unilaterally enforced
> > against
> > > > all ICANN accredited registrars in accordance with the terms of the
RAA.
> > If
> > > > the registrars refuse or are unable to adopt a Code of Conduct, then
> > proceed
> > > > to Option 3 below.
> > > >
> > > > Option 3:
> > > >
> > > > If ICANN is unable to implement the above referenced recommendations
> > under
> > > > either Option 1 or 2, ICANN General Counsel and Staff are instructed
to
> > > > enter into individual bi-lateral amendments to the RAA with
registrars
> > > > incorporating these procedures.
> > > >
> > > > For those registrars that execute the bi-lateral amendment to the
RAA,
> > ICANN
> > > > will provide that domain name registrar and its registrants with an
> > extend
> > > > time window (30 days total) to investigate and respond to Whois data
> > > > accuracy inquires. ICANN also agrees to not publicly disclose any
> > > > statistical information on that registrar's compliance with
Internic,net
> > > > Whois portal inquiries.
> > > >
> > > > For those registrars that refuse not to enter into a bi-lateral
> > amendment to
> > > > the RAA, ICANN will continue to enforce the shorter 15 notice and
> > deletion
> > > > policy instead of the more flexible 30 day notice and hold policy.
> > > > Additionally, ICANN will publicly disclose statistical information
on
> > that
> > > > registrars' compliance with Internic.net Whois portal inquiries.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > This message was passed to you via the ga@dnso.org list.
> > > > Send mail to majordomo@dnso.org to unsubscribe
> > > > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > > > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > This message was passed to you via the ga@dnso.org list.
> > > > Send mail to majordomo@dnso.org to unsubscribe
> > > > ("unsubscribe ga" in the body of the message).
> > > > Archives at http://www.dnso.org/archives.html
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > --
> > > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
> > > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> > >
> > >
>
> Regards,
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
> Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
>
>



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