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Re: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed domains


Bhavin Turakhia wrote:
> 
> 
> both .....
> 
> the way i see it -
> 
> 1. they can keep the format and put a note explaiaing this in the whois
> (i can picture already a big long paragraph explaning the conceopt of
> autorenew to the customer. this paragraph also cannot tel the customer
> whether the domain is renewed or not, since the registry never knows if
> the domain is renewed at the registrar)
> 
> 2. the can skip the paragraph and simply change the Auto-renew
> implementation to something like a renewal grace time period during
> whicfh an explicit renew command MUST be sent to the registry so the
> registry can display the new expiry date (until which the old date would
> continue to show with a note to go and renew the domain with the
> registrar)

Unfortunately a default of "renew unless explicitly 
deleted" is safer. The risk of a name being deleted by the
registry if a registrar could not explicitly renew it 
for technical (or some other reason)
still exists and the ability to restore doesn't change that.
Additionally, it would require changing existing processes
that have been in place for several years that assume a name
is autorenewed and never deleted by the registry unless
explicitly told to do so.

Larry Erlich

> 
> bhavin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-registrars@dnso.org [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org] On
> Behalf Of Tim Ruiz
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:34 PM
> To: Elana Broitman; registrars@dnso.org; cgomes@verisign.com
> Cc: Adam Burstein; John Nigro
> Subject: RE: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed domains
> 
> Is the problem with the format, or with the concept of auto-renew?
> 
> Tim
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-registrars@dnso.org [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org]On
> Behalf Of Elana Broitman
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:35 AM
> To: 'registrars@dnso.org'; 'cgomes@verisign.com'
> Cc: Adam Burstein; John Nigro
> Subject: RE: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed domains
> 
> Chuck - why did the registry decide to change its format?  This is
> causing quite the consternation among registrars.
> 
> Thanks, Elana
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Erlich [mailto:erlich@domainregistry.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:37 AM
> To: Paul Stahura
> Cc: registrars@dnso.org; info@verisign-grs.com
> Subject: Re: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed domains
> 
> Paul Stahura wrote:
> >
> > I agree. A more informative status expiration will
> > increase renewals and decrease frustration and confusion.
> > The registry knows that the name has not been paid for yet, correct?
> 
> How does the registry know that the name hasn't
> been paid for?
> 
> Unfortunately I don't see a way that they are going to be
> able to explain this in the whois. That is, that the
> "date" is not really the expiration date, but it"maybe"
> the expiration date, so check with the whois of your registrar.
> 
> The fact is, there is really no point to having the expiration
> date appear if it isn't authoratative.
> And if it does need to appear, the only solution
> that I can think of is to encode it in some way that
> the average user can't decipher, but someone who knows the
> code can. Like the registrar or someone who has taken the
> time to read an explanation of the date.
> 
> Expiration date 2004-01-01 could be
> shown just as RXD20040101 or something
> even more cryptic. That way an average
> uninformed user wouldn't make a mistake when looking
> at the registry whois and thinking his domain had not
> expired as has correctly been pointed out.
> 
> > How about:
> >
> > "Expiration Date if name is renewed: 2004-01-01 (This name is pending
> > deletion)"
> 
> Doesn't make sense to do this. What is the point of
> saying "Expiration Date if name is renewed:" Once again, how would
> the registry know if the registrar has or has not been paid.
> A renew command doesn't need to be sent if the registry
> has autorenewed the name. Only if it has not.
> 
> Larry Erlich
> 
> http://www.DomainRegistry.com
> 
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nezih Erkman [mailto:nezih@erkman.com]
> > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 3:15 PM
> > To: VeriSign Global Registry Services
> > Cc: Registrars Constituency
> > Subject: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed domains
> >
> > In the new WHOIS format, verisign-grs shows the status and expiration
> date
> > for the domains which we all like the feature. However,
> > there is a little problem with Auto-renewed domains:
> >
> > When the domain is auto-renewed, the registry has the new expiration
> date
> > and this one is shown on the registry WHOIS without any
> > other indicator that we or the registrant can tell whether the domain
> will
> > is expired or not.
> > This creates a problem, because, the registrant thinks that the domain
> is
> > renewed, and asks us to correct our records according to
> > the parent company (the Registry). Or, they don't even contact us
> thinking
> > that there is nothing to worry, then all of a sudden, the
> > domain is deleted.
> >
> > PS: This is also problem for the registrar transfers. The gaining
> registrar
> > will not know if the domain is Auto or Explicitly
> > Renewed.
> >
> > Solution1:
> >  Show the previous expiration date for the domains that are in the
> renewal
> > grace period
> >
> > Solution2:
> >  Show the auto-renewed date with an warning :
> > ie: Expiration Date: 2004-01-01 (Temporary Expiration date)
> > or
> > PROJECTED Expiration Date: 2004-01-01
> >
> > Solution 3:
> >  Show the auto-renewed date and use status field
> > i.e. "status: AutoRenew Grace Period" or "status:Temporary Renew for
> 40
> > days" or ."status: Pending for deletion" , etc.
> > but NOT "status:AutoRenew", this would create more confusion.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Nezih Jack Erkman
> > R & K GBS, Inc.
> > 000Domains.com
> > 501-779-1934
> 
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Larry Erlich - DomainRegistry.com, Inc.
> 215-244-6700 - FAX:215-244-6605 - Reply: erlich@DomainRegistry.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> both .....
> 
> the way i see it -
> 
> 1. they can keep the format and put a note explaiaing this in the
> whois (i can picture already a big long paragraph explaning the
> conceopt of autorenew to the customer. this paragraph also cannot tel
> the customer whether the domain is renewed or not, since the registry
> never knows if the domain is renewed at the registrar)
> 
> 2. the can skip the paragraph and simply change the Auto-renew
> implementation to something like a renewal grace time period during
> whicfh an explicit renew command MUST be sent to the registry so the
> registry can display the new expiry date (until which the old date
> would continue to show with a note to go and renew the domain with the
> registrar)
> 
> bhavin
> 
>      -----Original Message-----
>      From: owner-registrars@dnso.org
>      [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org] On Behalf Of Tim Ruiz
>      Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:34 PM
>      To: Elana Broitman; registrars@dnso.org; cgomes@verisign.com
>      Cc: Adam Burstein; John Nigro
>      Subject: RE: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for
>      Auto-renewed domains
> 
>      Is the problem with the format, or with the concept of
>      auto-renew?
> 
>      Tim
> 
>           -----Original Message-----
>           From: owner-registrars@dnso.org
>           [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org]On Behalf Of
>           Elana Broitman
>           Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:35 AM
>           To: 'registrars@dnso.org'; 'cgomes@verisign.com'
>           Cc: Adam Burstein; John Nigro
>           Subject: RE: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date
>           for Auto-renewed domains
> 
>           Chuck - why did the registry decide to change its
>           format?  This is causing quite the consternation
>           among registrars.
> 
>           Thanks, Elana
> 
>           -----Original Message-----
>           From: Larry Erlich
>           [mailto:erlich@domainregistry.com]
>           Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:37 AM
>           To: Paul Stahura
>           Cc: registrars@dnso.org; info@verisign-grs.com
>           Subject: Re: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date
>           for Auto-renewed domains
> 
>           Paul Stahura wrote:
>           >
>           > I agree. A more informative status expiration
>           will
>           > increase renewals and decrease frustration and
>           confusion.
>           > The registry knows that the name has not been
>           paid for yet, correct?
> 
>           How does the registry know that the name hasn't
>           been paid for?
> 
>           Unfortunately I don't see a way that they are
>           going to be
>           able to explain this in the whois. That is, that
>           the
>           "date" is not really the expiration date, but
>           it"maybe"
>           the expiration date, so check with the whois of
>           your registrar.
> 
>           The fact is, there is really no point to having
>           the expiration
>           date appear if it isn't authoratative.
>           And if it does need to appear, the only solution
>           that I can think of is to encode it in some way
>           that
>           the average user can't decipher, but someone who
>           knows the
>           code can. Like the registrar or someone who has
>           taken the
>           time to read an explanation of the date.
> 
>           Expiration date 2004-01-01 could be
>           shown just as RXD20040101 or something
>           even more cryptic. That way an average
>           uninformed user wouldn't make a mistake when
>           looking
>           at the registry whois and thinking his domain had
>           not
>           expired as has correctly been pointed out.
> 
>           > How about:
>           >
>           > "Expiration Date if name is renewed: 2004-01-01
>           (This name is pending
>           > deletion)"
> 
>           Doesn't make sense to do this. What is the point
>           of
>           saying "Expiration Date if name is renewed:" Once
>           again, how would
>           the registry know if the registrar has or has not
>           been paid.
>           A renew command doesn't need to be sent if the
>           registry
>           has autorenewed the name. Only if it has not.
> 
>           Larry Erlich
> 
>           http://www.DomainRegistry.com
> 
>           >
>           > Paul
>           >
>           > -----Original Message-----
>           > From: Nezih Erkman [mailto:nezih@erkman.com]
>           > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 3:15 PM
>           > To: VeriSign Global Registry Services
>           > Cc: Registrars Constituency
>           > Subject: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for
>           Auto-renewed domains
>           >
>           > In the new WHOIS format, verisign-grs shows the
>           status and expiration date
>           > for the domains which we all like the feature.
>           However,
>           > there is a little problem with Auto-renewed
>           domains:
>           >
>           > When the domain is auto-renewed, the registry
>           has the new expiration date
>           > and this one is shown on the registry WHOIS
>           without any
>           > other indicator that we or the registrant can
>           tell whether the domain will
>           > is expired or not.
>           > This creates a problem, because, the registrant
>           thinks that the domain is
>           > renewed, and asks us to correct our records
>           according to
>           > the parent company (the Registry). Or, they
>           don't even contact us thinking
>           > that there is nothing to worry, then all of a
>           sudden, the
>           > domain is deleted.
>           >
>           > PS: This is also problem for the registrar
>           transfers. The gaining registrar
>           > will not know if the domain is Auto or
>           Explicitly
>           > Renewed.
>           >
>           > Solution1:
>           >  Show the previous expiration date for the
>           domains that are in the renewal
>           > grace period
>           >
>           > Solution2:
>           >  Show the auto-renewed date with an warning :
>           > ie: Expiration Date: 2004-01-01 (Temporary
>           Expiration date)
>           > or
>           > PROJECTED Expiration Date: 2004-01-01
>           >
>           > Solution 3:
>           >  Show the auto-renewed date and use status field
> 
>           > i.e. "status: AutoRenew Grace Period" or
>           "status:Temporary Renew for 40
>           > days" or ."status: Pending for deletion" , etc.
>           > but NOT "status:AutoRenew", this would create
>           more confusion.
>           >
>           > Best Regards,
>           >
>           > Nezih Jack Erkman
>           > R & K GBS, Inc.
>           > 000Domains.com
>           > 501-779-1934
> 
>           --
>           -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>           Larry Erlich - DomainRegistry.com, Inc.
>           215-244-6700 - FAX:215-244-6605 - Reply:
>           erlich@DomainRegistry.com
>           -----------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Larry Erlich - DomainRegistry.com, Inc.
215-244-6700 - FAX:215-244-6605 - Reply: erlich@DomainRegistry.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


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