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RE: [ga] 6000+ unique At Large Members?
You may not remember that before they revamped the BC site (or may be
still) the DNSO/BC claimed to represent 18.000 Members through the members
of their Members.
I think that if you add all the members of the organizations that are
listed on the ALAC site, you will find a number of 6000+ realistic. What
may be more complex willbe ofr them to know if the names are or not
duplicated (people using several addresses). The real question we have is:
is this 6000+ list an unique list under the control of ICANN or a meta-list
gathering the ALAC members lists.
We will soon know in seeing if we receive (and how many times) mails from
Vittorio (BTW I cleaned he icannatlarge.com one: I do hope that its members
are not listed as such on the ALAC list).
jfc
At 10:39 24/04/03, Abel Wisman wrote:
>It is clear that they intent to use the GA list because other lists as
>mentioned are out of date and closed which in this day and age means
>that they are worthless.
>
>The use of email addresses collected from other then direct subscription
>for any form of announcement made by others then the list "owner" on
>topics not directly related to that list are most likely spam, perhaps
>some of the lawyers on this list can explain this somewhat better.
>The use of email addresses without permission of the owner is as far as
>I know illegal and the disclosure of the membership of those lists to
>any 3de party imo a breach of privacy rules as they exist in California.
>
>Usage of any list other the ALAC list to which people willingly
>subscribed is therefore in my opinion illegal and at best immoral and my
>wondering is whether if this usage takes place there is room for a
>law-suit against ICANN.
>
>Regards
>
>
>Abel
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-ga@dnso.org [mailto:owner-ga@dnso.org] On Behalf Of Richard
>Henderson
>Sent: 23 April 2003 23:15
>To: Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law; Joanna Lane
>Cc: Denise Michel; abel@able-towers.com; DannyYounger@cs.com;
>ga@dnso.org
>Subject: Re: [ga] 6000+ unique At Large Members?
>
>
>This is just Denise scrabbling about desperately for credibility!
>
>ALAC has been appointed top down. ICANN want to kick out the Board
>Members who have actually been elected by a democratic process. Has
>Denise ever been elected to represent individual users? Has Esther been
>elected to represent individual users?
>
>This is an ICANN initiative, imposed top down, and being marketed to DoC
>as a user initiative. The credibility just isn't there. Indeed,
>individual users are among ALAC's most vociferous critics.
>
>So ... um ... rake out that old e-mail list!
>
>This is just really amateurish.
>
>Richard H
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law <froomkin@law.miami.edu>
>To: Joanna Lane <jo-uk@rcn.com>
>Cc: Denise Michel <denisemichel@icann.org>; <abel@able-towers.com>;
><DannyYounger@cs.com>; <ga@dnso.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 8:21 PM
>Subject: RE: [ga] 6000+ unique At Large Members?
>
>
> > the elections list can't be used -- ICANN always took the position
> > that privacy rules prohibited contacting those people by or for the
> > GA...
> >
> > On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Joanna Lane wrote:
> >
> > > ICANN really must reassure the Department of Commerce that it is not
>
> > > bolstering its credibility by falsely claiming interest that it does
>
> > > not
>in
> > > fact have. The 6000+ must be a typo, or how has Denise arrived at
> > > this number?
> > >
> > > Conservatively, that has to be about 5,000 more people than have
>actually
> > > participated in the At Large debate since the end of the Elections
> > > in
>2000.
> > > Of those registered at that time, many are now represented in the
> > > GNSO constituencies, on the ALAC itself and in ICANN Staff Offices.
> > > Even
>serious
> > > lobbying in the public fora by the most passionate of activists
> > > failed
>to
> > > raise more than, say, let's be generous, 1,000 at any one time on
> > > any
>list.
> > > So who are these 6,000 unique individuals exactly? Where are they
> > > from?
> > >
> > > In total there have been 3 Announce lists for the At Large, each
> > > grown
>from
> > > the previous, with a large number of duplications between the lists
> > > as people rolled from one to the next, each shut down by ICANN in
> > > turn. ID verification is an unresolved problem as people joined
> > > these lists
>multiple
> > > times using different names and email addresses. What steps are
> > > ICANN
>Staff
> > > taking to protect the integrity of the lists they are compiling?
> > >
> > > Even if the 6000+ number is correct, which is hard to believe, it is
>
> > > a matter of record that the vast majority were attracted by the
>opportunity to
> > > vote in an election. ICANN's abandonment of democratic foundations,
>viewed
> > > as a betrayal, has now manifested itself as zero interest in this
> > > new venture. In reality, prior interest is most definitely not
> > > ongoing from
>the
> > > At Large Lists of the past, especially for an organization that is
> > > not founded in democratic principles.
> > >
> > > Did Denise take the original At Large electorate data for 2000 and
>subtract
> > > the number of emails that bounced on the ALSC Announce List? If so,
> > > that would confirm an impressive 90+% failure rate to foster At
> > > Large participation over the last 3 years.
> > >
> > > For the record, the At Large Announce lists amount to these:-
> > >
> > > 1) Year 2000: At Large Elections List, closed more than 2 years ago.
> > > 2) Year 2001: ALSC list, roughly 1,000+ rolled over from earlier
> > > list, numbers declined to a handful of participants when closed more
>
> > > than 1
>year
> > > ago.
> > > 3) Year 2002: 100+ active participants from the 2001 list rolled
> > > over to ICANNAtLarge.com, originally funded by ICANN Staff under the
>
> > > leadership
>of
> > > Denise Michel. Membership grew to roughly 1000, of which only a
> > > handful remain active today.
> > >
> > > By my calculations, that makes about 60 left, not 6,000.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Joanna
> > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-ga@dnso.org [mailto:owner-ga@dnso.org] On Behalf Of
> > > > DannyYounger@cs.com
> > > > Sent: 22 April 2003 17:13
> > > > To: ga@dnso.org
> > > > Subject: [ga] 6000+ names
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just posted:
> > > >
> > > > ICANN's technical staff is working on combining past At-Large
> > > > announce lists (with 6000 + names) for the ALAC's use and an
> > > > announce list subscribe/un-subscribe mechanism for the ALAC's
> > > > website. I expect
>this
> > > > to be operational very soon.
> > > >
> > > > Denise
> > > >
> > > > http://forum.icann.org/mail-archive/alac/msg00189.html
> > > > --
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>
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>
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> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Please visit http://www.icannwatch.org
> > A. Michael Froomkin | Professor of Law | froomkin@law.tm
> > U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
> > +1 (305) 284-4285 | +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) | http://www.law.tm
> > -->It's warm here.<--
> >
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