RE: [icann-europe] Re: [ga] Re: [icann-europe] new.net and Tiscal i

[Jefsey Morfin <jefsey@wanadoo.fr>]

Dear Marc and Roeland,
the internet is by nature a mathematical chaos. The ICANN wants to handle 
it in a hierachical way. The only appropriate positive approach to help the 
ICANN matching the network reality and build from there is actually to make 
a mess (chaos) of it. The only problem with this is to know when to stop: a 
chaos is not a complete mess: a complete mess is mathematically organized 
as a mess, and is no more a chaos.

This translates in confusing their organization. Messing around. But at the 
same time proposing solutions in accordance with the vey nature of the 
Network. Confusing the issues for them to clarify themselves in the proper 
way. This is the Internet Resistance. What is really a pain is that most of 
the peole in here are attracted by the Staff rather than by the net. They 
spend hours arguing about Louis Touton, Joe Sims, Mike Roberts's stubborn 
self extremism and Stuart's ICP-3 faith, but they don't consider how we 
could restore the nets.

The Internet is a users network. Not an operator network. No one need the 
ICANN. No one need the Telcos - even non one will need their cable (heard 
about HiWi?). RadioPacket was not big stuff yet it worked. The new nets 
systems will be interesting. This is what we should consider as the DNSO: 
how the user system architecture is to be organized to be stand-alone and 
not to call on the roots: exit ICP-3, exit New.net, exit alt(sic)roots. 
Just users and users-groups named TLDs. Never asked yourself why Postel 
chose the ISO two letters code of the telex and we had chosen the three 
letters code of the radio :-) .... somekind of a symbol.

IMHO, the DNSO interests and Veribigbrother are minor issues when compared 
to IPv6 issues at the ASO and very small ones when compared with the Stand 
Alone System Architecture at the PSO.

Now you tested it, forget about their dumb dishonnest creep and greed... 
and enjoy the future. Plenty of exciting fun ahead.

Jefsey

PS. I am not that absolutely sure they will get the M$ 4.75 they expect 
from ".org". But we can discuss that privately.

On 00:47 21/12/01, Marc Schneiders said:
>On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, at 15:36 [=GMT-0800], Roeland Meyer wrote:
>
> > If you think about it, this is obviously what ICANN wants. As the main dog
> > in the manger, keeping all other cooperative/collective solutions
> > suppressed, the cartel approach is the only way left to route around them.
> >
> > The ICANN is either too stupid for words or they are cunningly manipulating
> > the internet into a cartel-only existance. I don't see a middle-ground
> > interpretation of their actions. Maybe my imagination is lacking?
>
>I think your imigination is quite acurate. Unfortunately. This doesn't
>mean I have to like the solution of new.net, or any other counter
>cartel. ICANN may be a cartel (and mainly it is, I think). That
>doesn't mean that the way out is a competitor that does not 'talk'
>with it. Yes, I know that the breaking down of Telco monopolies (I
>only know about here, Holland) was not easy, but at least it did not
>turn into a _mess_. new.net etc means a mess, as you know. I have seen
>your efforts to repair this mess on a technical DNS level, and I
>appreciate your ideas. But this is not the way for 'users'.
>
>We should avoid a mess, really, not because it would not be fun, it
>would be.
>
>M
>
>  > > |> -----Original
>Message----- > |> From: Marc Schneiders [mailto:marc@schneiders.org]
> > |> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 3:11 PM
> > |> To: steinle@smartvia.de
> > |> Cc: icann-europe@lists.fitug.de; ga@dnso.org
> > |> Subject: Re: [icann-europe] Re: [ga] Re: [icann-europe] new.net and
> > |> Tiscali
> > |>
> > |>
> > |> On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, at 22:51 [=GMT+0100], steinle@smartvia.de wrote:
> > |>
> > |> > @ Pascal and all,
> > |> >
> > |> > There will be definitivly a Domain resolution over the Tiscali
> > |> > DNS. All other is wishful thinking from you as a competitor.
> > |> >
> > |> > According to my information New.net will add another big ISP in
> > |> > the next days to jump over 100 mil users with access before 2002.
> > |> >
> > |> > ISPs smell the cash... there is no reason for ISPs why they
> > |> > shouldn't join the New.net team. Hey, they get mo money and their
> > |> > customers get more TLDs. Sounds goog to me.
> > |> >
> > |> > Sorry,
> > |> > but as always money makes the world go round.
> > |>
> > |> No need to apologize, just to think. Is this what we want? Me selling
> > |> bad.kids and you too?
> > |>
> > |> I don't think so. I would like to go for something solid. Regulated,
> > |> but NOT a cartel.
> > |>
> > |> --
> > |> marc@j.root-servers.orsc
> > |>
> > |> >
> > |> > cheers,
> > |> > simon
> > |> > http://nic.pro.xs2.net
> > |> >
> > |> > > Jeff, Thomas and all,
> > |> > > Tiscal has confirmed that there is a form of cooperation
> > |> with new.net.
> > |> > > _but_ following my information, there's no active
> > |> registration over the
> > |> > > Tiscali network. Furthermore a Domain resolution over
> > |> the Tiscali DNS
> > |> > > has not been confirmed yet. As far as I know, there are
> > |> no further
> > |> > > informations as the press release of new.net, which
> > |> doesn't say veray
> > |> > > much...
> > |> > > Regards,
> > |> > > Pascal
> > |> > > On 20 Dec 2001 at 13:16, Jeff Williams wrote:
> > |> > > > Thomas and all,
> > |> > > >
> > |> > > >   Thomas, thank you for this input.  It is not
> > |> unexpected of course. As
> > |> > > > has been the steady but somewhat subdued trend, the
> > |> ISP's seeking
> > |> > > > additional customers and service product offerings,
> > |> Inclusive and
> > |> > > > competitive registries/Root structures are becoming
> > |> the best avenue for
> > |> > > > both potential customer and the ISP's....
> > |> > > >
> > |> > > > Thomas Roessler wrote:
> > |> > > >
> > |> > > > > According to an item on Heise's news ticker, Tiscali
> > |> - one of the
> > |> > > > > larger European ISPs - has joined the club of those
> > |> who will add
> > |> > > > > new.net's domains.
> > |> > > > >
> > |> > > > > http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/anw-20.12.01-000/
> > |> > > > > http://www.new.net/tiscali_press.tp
> > |> > > > >
> > |> > > > > There doesn't seem to be any press release on
> > |> Tiscali's web site.
> > |> > > > >
> > |> > > > > --
> > |> > > > > Thomas Roessler
> > http://log.does-not-exist.org/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: icann-europe-unsubscribe@lists.fitug.de
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> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > > > > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 121k members/stakeholdes strong!)
> > > > > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > > > > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > > > > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > > > > Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
> > > > > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
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> > > > >
> > > > ================================
> > > > Pascal Bernhard
> > > > cube
> > > > Geschäfte werden von Menschen gemacht...
> > > > pbernhard@cube.de
> > > > http://cube.de/
> > > > http://boroon.de/
> > > > FON: +49-6352-753725
> > > > FAX: +49-6352-753726
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