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Re: [IFWP] RE: [IDNO:397] [discuss] Re: a democracy can defend itself

John and all,

  I think the point of contention that the IDNO has with you and few
others, is that you have several times violated the "Cross Posting"
rule for the IDNO mailing list.  Personally, I don't agree with that rule, for
several reasons, but I shall try to abide by it as I am doing in this very post
by forwarding this post to the IDNO mailing list instead of just
"Reply All" to all of the recipients.

  In case you, John have not noticed the DNSO mailing lists have the
same "No cross posting rule" as does the "membership" list of the
ICANN...   In fact I am not even allowed to join as a guest on the
Non-commercial Domain Name mailing list by Don Heath, even though
my organization financially supports several non-commercial
organizations that are domain name holders.  As such we [INEGroup]
are now forced to consider withdrawing future financial support from
all of those organizations as a potential consequence.
Exparte rules should abide...

John B. Reynolds wrote:

> Now the IDNO has moved from contemplating the removal of certain non-members
> from its mailing list to expulsion of members who criticize its actions
> based on the whim of its chair.  The IDNO evidently no longer seeks to
> represent all individual domain holders, just those who share a particular
> point of view.  This should disqualify it from further consideration for
> recognition as a DNSO constituency.  Any future criticism by the IDNO and
> its members of ICANN's failure to adopt fully open and transparent processes
> should be recognized by all for the utter hypocrisy that it is.
> I'll save you the trouble of expelling me - I resign my IDNO membership.
> P.S.  Fenello isn't the Executive Director of IDNO - he heads a different
> NSI front group.  However, if factual errors were grounds for expulsion,
> almost all of us would have been banned from these debates long ago.
> P.P.S.  Yes, I'm intentionally cross-posting this.  Someone has to.
> Kevin J. Connolly wrote:
> >
> > When I was studying political science (bachelor's and halfway to
> > master's degree before switching to law) I learnt that different
> > people have different perceptions of what "democracy" means.
> > That may be the problem at hand.
> >
> > To me, "democracy" refers to an acceptance of certain "rules of
> > the game."  It is first and foremost about procedural
> > considerations, not about substance.  There is no a priori
> > reason to believe that a Monarchy, democracy, and a plutocracy
> > could not adopt substantively identical policies on a number of
> > crucial issues.  The ways in which they would go about taking
> > those decisions, however, would be radically different.
> >
> > Democracy as such therefore begins and ends with the proposition
> > that the voice of the people is decisive and must be recognized
> > as such.  Democracy is intimately bound up with freedom of
> > expression.  Freedom to criticize.  Freedom to disagree.  And it
> > also presupposes that members (yea, "founders") will not be cut
> > off from the community without the assent of the community.
> > Democracy is confident that in an environment where people can
> > express themselves freely, the people will coalesce around
> > workable political decisions.  Democracy also presupposes that
> > the voters have access on some level to the process of initiating
> > decisions.
> >
> > That's not how IDNO works.  Only one person decides what will or
> > will not be put to a vote, and he determines the way in which
> > issues will be put to a vote without consulting the membership.
> > Even as undemocratic an organization as the United States House
> > of Representatives allows the Members of Congress to make
> > motions, including motions in chief and amendments.  Here there
> > is not even a pretense that a member can propose a matter for
> > discussion and voting.
> >
> > More importantly, members of IDNO are subject to expulsion at the
> > whim of a single individual.   All it takes at IDNO is for
> > criticism to leak out (in my case, I was guilty of the sin of not
> > reviewing the headers after hitting the reply button to a
> > cross-posted message.  Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea minima culpa.))
> > whereupon one finds oneself . . . without notice, without an
> > opportunity to be heard, without a vote being conducted or the
> > membership being consulted . . . booted from membership.
> > Expelled by fiat from on high.
> >
> > IDNO is evidently engaged in a new and interesting use of the
> > word "democracy" that I have not before encountered.
> >
> > And what, exactly, was the substance of the remark that got me so
> > unceremoniously booted from IDNO?  It was the observation that
> > you (I had to erase the "we" that I typed the first time I wrote
> > this sentence :-( are perceived as linked with Iperdome and NSI.
> >
> > It's not hard to see the connection or the rationale for it.  The
> > Executive Director of the IDNO is Jay Fenello, the promoter of
> > the Iperdome venture and a paid consultant for NSI.  NSI's agenda
> > has always been opposed to ISOC, IAHC, and now ICANN, and IDNO
> > has had a decidedly anti-ISOC bent, as well as being opposed to
> > the present configuration of ICANN.  Denying this element of
> > IDNO's weltanschauung  simply makes it look like IDNO is an
> > operating arm of Orwell's Ministry of Truth.  When people ask
> > about an archive (that which is inimical to Minitruthfulness),
> > the inquirer is castigated as an obvious opponent.  OF COURSE
> > when NSI offered IDNO one of its seats on the Names Council, it
> > did so out of purely altruistic motives.  (Yeah, right.  BTW,
> > there's a bridge in downtown Manhattan that goes across the East
> > River that has been in my family for generations but my health is
> > failing so I have to give it up it's real lucrative and you can
> > charge tolls and I'll sell it to you for!
> >  just $500 okay?*)
> >
> > By adding another voice to the noise surrounding the startup of
> > ICANN, IDNO serves NSI's agenda of postponing unto death the
> > emergence of real competition.
> >
> > I can no longer support this organization or its activities.
> > While I have had my differences with many of the members of IDNO,
> > I believed it was in the best interest of the Internet that
> > individuals as such be empowered, and I saw IDNO as a means to
> > that end.  I no longer see IDNO as anything more than a pawn of
> > NSI, and I will not continue to further NSI's agenda.  I remain
> > undecided as to whether trying to empower individuals in internet
> > governance is a quest for the Holy Grail or an attempt to make a
> > silk purse out of a sow's ear.
> >
> > But let's make sure we all understand something:  I am still a
> > believer in democracy.  I'm not leaving this group voluntarily.
> > I'm being expelled because the high poobah will not tolerate
> > dissent nor will he trouble himself to consult hoi polloi such as
> > the mere mortal membership of IDNO/CA before doing so.
> >
> > Adios!
> >
> > Kevin J. Connolly
> >
> > *For da sake of youse who are unfamiliah wit' da Big Apple, dat's
> > da Brooklyn Bridge I'm offerin' ya :-)
> >
> >
> > >>> Joop Teernstra <terastra@terabytz.co.nz> 06/15/99 10:06PM >>>
> > At 12:51 15/06/1999 -0400, Kevin Connolly wrote:
> >
> > >And you guys have the nerve to suggest that you're a legitimate voice of
> > individual domain name holders?  This is some kind of joke!  The funny
> > thing is, I've been pushing away the players in the domain name war who
> > believe that I should organize an individuals' constituency as a
> > counterweight to IDNO.  I believed (up until I found myself purged, about
> > half an hour ago) that while I had differences with some of the members
> > here, it was in the best interest of the Internet that we work together to
> > advance the empowerment of individuals with respect to the internet.
> > >
> > >And then you guys decided to go ahead and purge me :-)
> > >
> > I take responsibility for taking your name down from the website, Kevin.
> > I did so after your posting to dnso.org where you stated that in your view
> > our IDNO had almost no legitimacy left.
> > You also stated that we identified ourselves with Iperdome (?) and NSI.
> > Extremely damaging and unsupported statements.
> > (Indeed it looked like you were positioning yourself to organize a
> > constituency as a "counterweight to IDNO".)
> > I presumed that you were giving up your membership of our illegitimate
> > organization.
> > Are you?
> >
> > If not, I will put your name back on forthwith, and with apologies for
> > misreading your intentions.
> >
> > >Golly gosh gee willickers, but you've simplified my life :-)
> > >
> > Do I read that correctly then, that you no longer want to be a member.
> > Please clarify.
> >
> >
> > --Joop Teernstra LL.M.--  , bootstrap  of
> > the Cyberspace Association,
> > the constituency for Individual Domain Name Owners
> > http://www.idno.org
> >
> > --
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Jeffrey A. Williams
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-447-1894
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208