WHOIS TF

November 27, 2002

ATTENDEES:
Marilyn Cade - Co-Chair
Tony Harris – Co-Chair
Thomas Roessler – GA representative
Abel Wisman - GA representative
Ken Stubbs – Registrars
Karen Elizaga
Steve Metalitz – IP representative
Laurence Djolakian – IP representative
Bret Fausett

OPERATOR: This is for Marilyn Cade. CID – DMC, five, nine, nine, three.

Pardon the interruption – the call is being recorded.

GLEN (ph): Hello? Is anyone on the line?

ABEL (ph): Good afternoon.

GLEN (ph): Hello. Who is this?

ABEL (ph): Abel (ph).

GLEN (ph): Hi, Abel (ph) – it’s GLEN (ph).

ABEL (ph): Hi, GLEN (ph).

GLEN (ph): I think that we are the only two on the line.

ABEL (ph): That’s OK – it’s nice and quiet, isn’t it?

GLEN (ph): Yes, it is.

THOMAS (ph): Yes (ph).

GLEN (ph): Hello, Thomas (ph).

ABEL (ph): Hi, Thomas (ph).

THOMAS (ph): … extend the pleasure …

GLEN (ph): Abel (ph), we’re you called up, too?

ABEL (ph): Sorry?

GLEN (ph): Were you called up? Did they call you?

ABEL (ph): Yes – they did.

GLEN (ph): OK. Thank you. And that worked fine. Good.

MARILYN CADE: Hello?

CADE: How are you?

Thomas Roessler : You sound so relaxed.

GLEN (ph): Marilyn (ph), you sound a different person.

CADE: Because I’m in the room with my mother.

GLEN (ph): Yes. I think you should get your mother more often.

CADE: I’ll tell her you said so.

I’m having a big problem with my cell phone, which isn’t (INAUDIBLE). Because I’m roaming it’s not charging very well. And so what I’m going to do is to start the call, start us walking through this and then ask if anyone has – I have Steve (ph)’s (ph) new documents. Let me ask if we have any other new documents from anyone because I haven’t been able to get online. I have to hang up the phone in order to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: Did you get the last one?

CADE: I have Steve (ph)’s (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: I don’t think there is much, is there? Except Thomas (ph) said there’s a link on the dot name ...

CADE: I saw that.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: ... summary for (INAUDIBLE) but that’s the last one.

CADE: OK – I saw that.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: I don’t see – I haven’t seen anything after Steve (ph)’s (ph). But then again I must be honest, I haven’t been online in the last hour and a half so a lot could have happened.

CADE: OK. And I didn’t see anything from Karen (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: No. Well, maybe – Thomas (ph), do you know anything about it? Do you see anything else?

THOMAS (ph): I think Karen (ph) sent something immediately after the call on Monday and nobody followed up. So ...

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: No.

THOMAS (ph): ... I suppose we are …

CADE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: Well, I offered Kristy some help but I didn’t get a reaction so ...

CADE: Kristy is traveling.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: Yes.

CADE: Kristy is driving.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: Yes. Perhaps I should have sent it to Thomas (ph) but I didn’t think about it.

THOMAS (ph): What did you – what did you ...

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: You were – you were working on – you were working on the redraft, weren’t you on ...

THOMAS (ph): (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: Well, so ...

THOMAS (ph): (INAUDIBLE)

CADE: But we don’t – we’re not going to publish that. We’re just going to …

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: Yes – I know.

CADE: ... right – a placeholder for it.

THOMAS (ph): … someone was on it.

CADE: Good.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: Does Kristy have the draft?

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: No, she didn’t. She didn’t tell me that you were working on it but she didn’t send me the draft so I didn’t understand.

THOMAS (ph): OK …

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: I couldn’t do that much about it.

THOMAS (ph): OK.

CADE: Thomas (ph), I’ve been – I have (INAUDIBLE) archives so I have no archives at all. But (INAUDIBLE) through I got back online yesterday ...

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: I can hardly hear you because we have got a lot of background noise.

CADE: Yes – I don’t know ...

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: Yes. Hold on – I’ll see if I can find a quieter spot.

CADE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: It might help.

CADE: I need for somebody to send me Karen’s (ph) latest document. It’s in my archives but I can’t get to my archives …

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: I haven’t got it either – or not here at least.

CADE: Yes.

BRETT (ph): … I’ve got it. I’ll send it to you right now.

CADE: Great – thanks. I won’t be able to get it ...

GLEN (ph): Who was that? Who was that?

CADE: Brett (ph).

GLEN (ph): Brett (ph)?

CADE: Yes. OK – why don’t – why don’t we – why don’t we do the roll call again? And then we’ll – so we have Brett (ph) and we have Thomas (ph) and we have Abel (ph) and Grant (ph) and Marilyn (ph) and we don’t have Ken (ph) or Laurence (ph) or – and Steve (ph) was going to be on late. So ...

GLEN (ph): And Tony is not on yet.

Tony Harris : Yes – Tony

CADE: Sorry –Tony.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: OK – Marilyn (ph) (INAUDIBLE) – I’m going to step away from the phone for about two minutes.

CADE: OK. What I’m going to do is dial in and pick back up. I’m going to have to hang up. I’m going to get off my cell phone, which won’t hold a charge for more than about a minute and a half it appears and pick that document up and then I’ll get back on the LAN line.

But why don’t we work out what we’re going to do today? We – I couldn’t tell when Steve (ph) was going to join us. And the main document that I have right now in front of me for us to look at is Steve (ph)’s (ph) document and then going to Karen’s (ph) redraft.

Why don’t we take a quick look at Steve (ph)’s (ph) document and see if we have any concerns about it. We can then just table those concerns and come back to see when he joins us.

This would ...

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: That’s fine.

CADE: ... this would be – and we – this would be the policy recommendation so I do envision the heading meeting to change today.

So it’s clear that the task force is recommending policy changes. And then I would suggest that we number this Roman one “Enforcement of Existing Contractual Obligations” so that then we can go down to – because in order to walk through this for the names council it’s going to be easier if we have everything labeled.

So I would put an “A” – if that makes sense to people.

Hi – who just joined us?

Laurence (ph) – hello.

CADE: Hi, Laurence (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: Bon jour, Laurence (ph).

LAURENCE (ph): Bon jour.

CADE: We have Brett (ph), Thomas (ph), Abel (ph), Glen (ph), Marilyn (ph), Tony (ph), you and me and we know that Steven’s (ph) going to be in a little bit late.

Who just joined us?

KAREN (ph): This is Karen (ph).

CADE: Hi, Karen (ph).

KAREN (ph): Hi, Marilyn (ph). How are you?

CADE: Good. Brett (ph), Thomas (ph), Abel (ph), Glen (ph), Marilyn (ph), Laurence (ph), Tony (ph), Karen (ph).

OK – we’re just starting with Steve (ph)’s (ph) document. And I was suggesting that we need a consistency to all of them.

So, for instance, the first item – the task force recommends. I probably am going to need to change that to be a heading of “Policy Recommendations.”

And then we need to figure out where – if – where we have – if we have something in this section that is not consensus – I don’t think we do anymore but we just want to make sure that we ...

Because we have to submit this to the names council let me just be very clear.

So I was suggesting that a Roman one be “Enforcement of Existing Contractual Obligations” and put an “A” beside ICANN should work with all relevant parties.

So the policy recommendation is actually “A” – right – it would be 1A (ph) and that’s the policy recommendation.

And then we have A1 (ph), A2 (ph), A3 (ph), A4 (ph), A5 (ph) ...

THOMAS (ph): This is really – I’m sorry but I don’t think that most of these points are policy recommendations as implemented. Unfortunately the recommendations ...

I don’t think you should (INAUDIBLE) the quality there and not change anything in the RAA (ph).

CADE: We need to – we need to figure out – even recommending stronger enforcements. Thomas (ph), I – we need to figure out where any of – whether any of these are going to require change.

And if they require change I think we do need to demonstrate that we have – that we have consensus for them because they – we want to be sure we get support for them.

What you’re saying is the contractual obligations exist already ...

THOMAS (ph): … working assumption under which we were operating.

CADE: Right. I understand but, just to be clear, we’re not recommending a policy change but we are recommending a change in the enforcement of the policy.

So in that case – go back up to the heading. So what should I – what should I call the heading then?

We can – we can come back to this but we need to name it something and to note that it’s the view of the task force that since we are – since we are not changing the RAA (ph) ...

Do you know – Laurence (ph), do you know whether Steve (ph) had looked at the memo from Dan (ph) to see whether or not this was referenced in Dan’s (ph) memo?

LAURENCE (ph): I’m not sure. I’m looking now, in fact. So I’ll tell you in a moment.

CADE: Yes. So I’m just going to make a note in my version of this – title needed for this page.

LAURENCE (ph): Steve (ph) is joining the call in one hour.

CADE: I know. I was hoping to get this down to a minimum number of questions that we had to engage him on.

TONY (ph): How about WHOIS suggested improvements?

CADE: Tony (ph), I’m sorry – where are you?

TONY (ph): At the title.

CADE: OK. So just to – sorry – just to – “Improvement and Enforcement of Existing RAA Requirements Regarding WHOIS.”

LAURENCE (ph): Yes – I think it’s good – yes.

CADE: OK. Got a decision – great. And then we can pick up (INAUDIBLE) with Steve (ph).

OK. Then, again, just for clarity’s sake, what I was trying to do is number this so we can think of this, Laurence (ph), as ...

Are you going to be in Amsterdam?

LAURENCE (ph): I will be there on Saturday in principle.

CADE: So you’ll be there for the names council?

LAURENCE (ph): Yes. Well, it’s at 8:00 in the morning I think (INAUDIBLE) time. It will ...

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: It’s on Sunday morning, isn’t it?

LAURENCE (ph): It’s on Saturday morning at 9:00 in Amsterdam – not 8:00. Eight o’clock …

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: Are we sure it’s on Saturday and not on Sunday morning?

CADE: That’s the board – that’s the board ...

LAURENCE (ph): Saturday morning at 9:00 Amsterdam time.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: That’s ridiculous.

CADE: Guys? OK ...

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: I’d have to fly out Friday night instead of Saturday morning.

CADE: Here’s the problem ...

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: That would change everything again.

CADE: The board – there’s never been a change in the names council. The board is meeting on Sunday. The time of the board is – has been changed to I think 7:30 or something very early so that most of us who are coming from outside can – from the United States – can be there for most of it.

ABEL (ph): But the names council was announced for Saturday afternoon for 3:00 or 2:00?

GLEN (ph): Yes.

ABEL (ph): It was – it was …

GLEN (ph): No – then I’m sorry – I then got the wrong information.

CADE: Yes. They did because that – Abel (ph) is right. I saw that as well. And that is presenting a problem.

GLEN (ph): And that wasn’t from me because I sent our information to them a long time ago.

CADE: Yes – OK. But let me – let me go to the problem. Think of this, Laurence (ph), as you and I and Tony (ph) on the phone and various few other people there in person hopefully because it’s going to be a bizarre 3:00 a.m. or 4:00 a.m. or something in the U.S.

So when you look at this language think about the fact that we have to be able to explain it clearly to the rest of the names council members.

So 1A (ph) adequate ICANN resources should be devoted to enforcement of WHOIS related divisions of these agreements.

One thing we have to do that we haven’t done yet is the cost assessment. And here I think that means this is – this is a cost to I CANN (ph) to insure that there is staff to the registrar and the registry.

Does anyone agree with that?

OK. Two, ICANN (INAUDIBLE) registrars to identify a reliable contact point – blah, blah, blah.

ICANN should encourage registrars to provide training. What about the – any comments about this? And what about the cost assessment?

Again, this is a minimal cost to ICANN It seems to me to be asking them to work with the registrars to obtain that information if they are cost effective. Is there a cost to the registrars?

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: But wouldn’t a manual serve the purpose instead of training – an online manual?

CADE: It might but I don’t – I don’t think that that’s the kind of thing – we wouldn’t want to get into the level of detail to tell them how to do it.

Besides that, I think this is going to be their responsibility to make sure that this – primarily interaction between the registrar and the ICANN staff.

Now the thing that is new and the registrars may object to is two small double I’s – however we say that. That is – that is something that the registrars may object to.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: Do you mean require resellers ...

CADE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: ... et cetera?

CADE: Yes.

And we need to be – I haven’t heard any – I don’t know whether TUCOWS comments regarding WHOIS address that but that may be something that the registrars come back and object to doing the working day comment period. So we should be aware of that.

UNIDENTIFIED PARTICIPANT: Well, maybe we shouldn’t suggest that then. We’re probably getting into detail of what they should be doing.

CADE: Well, I think the – I think that could be true. I think that there’s something, though, that Steve (ph) has – Laurence (ph), that Steve (ph) has put forward several times and that some people maintain that the inaccuracy is at the reseller level.

And what we’re talking about is just insuring how the interaction takes place regarding reports of false WHOIS data.

Why don’t – why don’t we leave it in and see what comments we get but I think, Laurence (ph), we need to make sure that Steve (ph) and you have checked TUCOWS comments?

LAURENCE (ph): That’s OK. This – I see that TUCOWS has made comments on that but I just can’t remember.

CADE: Yes.

LAURENCE (ph): I think that – I think, Thomas (ph), (INAUDIBLE) these comments of TUCOWS No?

CADE: Thomas (ph)?

LAURENCE (ph): He’s not here. OK – let me check – let me check now.

THOMAS (ph): I was muted – that was why.

CADE: OK. Thomas (ph), did you hear Laurence’s (ph) question?

THOMAS (ph): Completely. I was muted.

LAURENCE (ph): Having the comments of Marilyn (ph) I think (INAUDIBLE) having the comments – I think TUCOWS had some comments on fees, on the role of the resellers.

And I – and I – (INAUDIBLE) I remember (INAUDIBLE) these comments of TUCOWS Am I right?

Thomas Roessler : I’m not sure – I’m not sure if they were talking about resellers. I seem to recall that (INAUDIBLE) said something about a full-time staff for it or something, which would be required by the original command.

Wait a moment – I have the summary around somewhere (INAUDIBLE). (INAUDIBLE) the summary of (INAUDIBLE) Tucows That’s – I have summary of issues, summary of (INAUDIBLE) what I’m looking for.

KEN STUBBS (ph): Hello, Marilyn (ph)?

CADE: Yes?

STUBBS (ph): Hi – it’s Ken Stubbs (ph).

CADE: Hi, Ken (ph).