Re: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed domains

["Tim Ruiz" <tim@godaddy.com>]

I don't think we need a new status for this, or any change in the format of
the whois details. I would prefer to see it left as is for now.

The only suggestion that makes sense to me is that VeriSign might include
some text that explains that the Expiration Date is subject to conditions
under the control of the Registrar of record and should be verified through
them as they are authoritative in that regard. Possibly the message would
only be displayed if the domain is in the 45-grace period.

Tim


 -------- Original Message --------
   Subject: Re: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed domains
   From: "Nezih Erkman" <nezih@erkman.com>
   Date: Wed, January 29, 2003 1:36 am
   To: "Registrars Constituency" <registrars@dnso.org>

   Bhavin,

   I guess, I couldn't explain. We should be looking for an easy
   solution.

   If we try to think simple:
   There is no need for the registry to know if the domain is renewed. In
   registry database there is a flag: "Domain is in AutoRenew Grace
   Period"
   As long as the flag is up (which is 45 days or until the explicit
   renewal which ever is sooner), the registry can show this data on the
   WHOIS or use that flag to alter the WHOIS data.

   So, on the registry WHOIS, we will see that the domain is in Auto
   Renew Grace Period, even if it's renewed by the registrant. I don't
   see any problem with this. IN FACT, this would be a 100% true
   statement by the registry.

   Think about it: When the registrar receives the renewal order from the
   registrant,  the domain's "AutoRenew Grace Period" status doesn't
   change (unless it's multiple year renewal which requires explicit
   renewal and removes the "AutoRenewed" flag). The registrar can still
   delete the domain and get the money back. Or the registrant can
   transfer-away and the year is taken back. So there is still a chance
   for that year to be taken away.

   Nezih Jack Erkman
   R & K GBS, Inc.
   000Domains.com
   501-779-1934
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: "Bhavin Turakhia" <bhavin.t@directi.com>
   To: "'Nezih Erkman'" <nezih@erkman.com>; "'Registrars Constituency'"
   <registrars@dnso.org> Cc: "'Gomes, Chuck'" <cgomes@verisign.com>
   Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 1:10 AM
   Subject: RE: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for Auto-renewed
   domains


   > Hi,
   >
   > The chief problem is what I and chuck explicitly have stated in the
   > previous mails
   >
   > - Verisign DOES NOT KNOW WHEN A registrant has renewed the name. Let
   > me explain this in baby steps
   >
   > * domain expires on jan 1st
   > * verisign in its whois puts a note that this is in auto renew
   > period * registrant realises on jan 5th and asks registrar to renew
   > the domain name
   > * regsitrar at this stage has to do nothing but simply change his
   > local database to reflect the renewal
   > * meanwhile verisign STILL DOES NOT KNOW that the registrant has
   > asked for a renewal and will continue to display in its whois that
   > the domain is in auto renew period
   >
   > Therefore verisign CANNOT in its whois tell the customer whether the
   > domain name has been renewed or is still in the auto renew phase
   > where the registrant must contact his registrar. This will confuse
   > the registrant.
   >
   > The only solution is to be able to NOTIFY Verisign of the renewal,
   > and therefore a change whereby the auto-renew is modified such that
   > an explicit renew MUST be sent to not have the domain dropped on the
   > 45th day
   >
   > bhavin
   >
   > > -----Original Message-----
   > > From: owner-registrars@dnso.org
   > > [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org] On Behalf Of Nezih Erkman
   > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:54 AM
   > > To: Registrars Constituency
   > > Cc: Gomes, Chuck
   > > Subject: Re: [registrars] WHOIS expiration date for
   > > Auto-renewed domains
   > >
   > >
   > > When I posted this problem, I didn't think that it would
   > > become such a long thread with debates about  "Explicit
   > > Renew" commands, changes on RRP, etc.
   > >
   > > I still think that the issue is very SIMPLE:
   > >
   > > 1 - Showing the creation & expiration dates on the root
   > > registry WHOIS is a positive action.
   > >     (Also required by RGP, as Chuck stated)
   > >
   > > 2 -  The only problem is showing the AutoRenewed domain's
   > > expiration date as the real expiration date.
   > >     (Misleading information for registrants. That may think
   > > that the domain is renewed)
   > >     Please note,
   > >         - showing the new -AutoRenewed- expiration date;
   > >      is NOT the problem BUT:
   > >         - showing the new expiration date without any
   > > indicator that alarms us/registrant;
   > >      is the problem.
   > >
   > > 3 - The registry already knows whether the domain is in
   > > "AutoRenew" period or not.
   > >     Otherwise, the registry wouldn't be able to give credit
   > > for Transfer-away and Delete cases that are beyond 5 days.
   > >     You can see it on your monthly invoice that there is
   > > AutoRenew section.
   > >
   > > 4 - This must be corrected in some way.
   > >     Otherwise, it will be a big headache for all of us
   > > (lawsuits, etc as mentioned by Rob)
   > >
   > > 5 -  Finally: the question we need to answer :
   > >     "What is the proper format for AutoRenewed domains?"
   > >     a. Showing the pre-AutoRenew date with and additional
   > > 'Grace Period' indicator
   > >     b. Showing the AutoRenewed date with a different header
   > > (such as "Projected Expiration Date")
   > >     c. Showing the an additional info under 'Status' header
   > >     d. Combination of a,b,c
   > >
   > > PS: There is one issue that is raised by Chuck that I need to
   > > answer: Chuck wrote:
   > > >If we did that (showing the old exp.date) without forcing
   > > registrars to
   > > >submit explicit renewals, then the expiration date we
   > > displayed would
   > > >not match the registrar's in cases where a registrant
   > > renewed but the
   > > >registrar simply allowed the auto-renew process to take care of
   > > >the renewal.
   > > Answer:
   > > Every registrar lets the auto-renew process to take care of
   > > the renewal. There is no other option. The explicit renewal
   > > is sent only if the registrant is renewing for more than one
   > > year. In that case the explicit renewal is sent for "the
   > > number of renewal years - 1" So, I agree that the solution is
   > > not simply showing the old expiration date. How about option
   > > 5.a? Which one of the above options (5a,5b,5c, or other)
   > > sound reasonable to you?
   > >
   > > Nezih Jack Erkman
   > > R & K GBS, Inc.
   > > 000Domains.com
   > > 501-779-1934
   > >
   > >
   > >