RE: [registrars] Fw: Renewal Scams

[Paul Stahura <stahura@enom.com>]

Rob,

I don't know who is lying to who,
or even if anyone is lying to anyone.
I don't know if Tucows "threw them out", 
or DROC left Tucows because of poor service,
or what the situtation is between them and Tucows.
I don't really care.
I don't know if DROC or NDNR or anyone else have bad business practices,
how they get their marketing data and whether or not they use
the data illegally or counter to some agreement they've entered into.  
I'm not a judge. 
I guess that is why we have real judges.
I looked into it for my own curiosity.
And now, after looking into it even further
(after reading the actual complaint),
found that the maple-leaf use thing may be at least
be partly accurate after all.

I just know eNom strives to comply with all the agreements 
eNom has entered into, and when we detect non-compliance,
we make changes, which is why I've asked
DROC to modify their agreement to bring it into 
compliance. 

I don't blame Ross for not knowing NDNR is their
reseller.  I didn't know DROC was at eNom until
a short while ago.
By the way, the NDNR agreement http://www.ndnregistry.com/terms.html 
does not mention Tucows as far as I can tell.

Paul

FYI, I know eNom is a member of the BBB, 
though it does not state so on their site.
Also, I notice that in the link you sent it states that
DROC has no BBB complaints against them.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Hall [mailto:rob@momentous.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 4:13 PM
To: Registrars Mail List
Subject: RE: [registrars] Fw: Renewal Scams


Hmmm ...

Paul, someone is lying to you.

A search on the BBB site does indeed find DROC listed, but clearly states
they are NOT members of the BBB.
http://dell.hurdmanivr.com/kitch/report.html?compid=22083&national=Y

It is also convenient that the CFIB does not release it's membership info,
so there is no way to verify it.

And, their press release you sent, closes by saying"

"We look forward to becoming a "CIRA" (Canadian Internet Registration
Authority) accredited registrar as we anxiously await their judgment. The
Internet Registry of Canada is in the latter stages of the application
process, we have paid all fees and placed the necessary deposits with CIRA.
We
are also in the process of becoming an "ICANN" (Internet Corporation for
Assigned Names and Numbers) accredited registrar."

All this from last July.  I know the CIRA process takes about a week, so I
guess CIRA clearly sent their message to them.  And I don't think that ICANN
takes almost a year to get accredited in ....

I gather that Ross was wrong on the EDMN scam, but this clearly is a
reseller of yours.  I believe TUCOWS threw them out a while back because of
their deceptive practices.

Rob.



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-registrars@dnso.org [mailto:owner-registrars@dnso.org]On
Behalf Of Paul Stahura
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 6:38 PM
To: 'Ross Wm. Rader'; Registrars Mail List
Subject: RE: [registrars] Fw: Renewal Scams


Ross,

FYI I found out that DRoC (eNom reseller) is an active member of
Better Business Bereuo(BBB) of canada, american board of trade and
The canadian federation of independent business (CFIB).  I understand
that there is *no* ongoing inquiry of the Canadian DOJ with
DRoC.  And even if there was, what would eNom have to do with it?
I also found this press release:
http://www.newswire.ca/releases/July2001/25/c4757.html
that you can read for more info.

Also, you said
[begin quote]
"I think that these same companies
were behind the EDNM scam from last year that was subject to the FTC
investigation (details here:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/02/morgenstern.htm) - could be wrong on that
though."
[end quote]

I think you are wrong on that.
They are not the same company.

I did some further checking and I'm pretty
sure they are a Tucows reseller.


At the end of the document (you provided the link above), it says:
"The defendants named in the FTC suit are Darren J. Morgenstern, 1268957
Ontario, Inc., and 1371772 Ontario Inc., doing business as National Domain
Name Registry, Electronic Domain Name Monitoring, and Corporate Domain Name
Monitoring. The companies are based in Toronto, Canada, with an office in
Atlanta, Georgia."

www.ndnregistry.com (the company that is the FTC defendant) is a Tucows
reseller.

A name registered via them is:

drugcard-inc.net

see
http://www.netsol.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois?STRING=drugcard-inc.net&SearchType
=do

Registrant:
 Drug Card Inc.
 55 Shuman Blvd #700
 Naperville, IL 60563
 US

 Domain Name: DRUGCARD-INC.NET

 Administrative Contact:
    Manager, General  webmaster@ndnregistry.com
    55 Shuman Blvd #700
    Naperville, IL 60563
    US
    630-420-3900

 Technical Contact:
    Roberts, Ethan (DEFAULT)  webmaster@ndnregistry.com
    5555 Glenridge Connector
    Suite 200
    Atlanta, GA 30342
    US
    1-877-450-0607

 Billing Contact:
    Roberts, Ethan (DEFAULT)  webmaster@ndnregistry.com
    5555 Glenridge Connector
    Suite 200
    Atlanta, GA 30342
    US
    1-877-450-0607

 Registration Service Provider:
    NDNR - Courtesy Support Team, help@courtesysupportteam.net
    +1.8774500607


 Record last updated on 15-Mar-2002.
 Record expires on 01-Feb-2006.
 Record Created on 01-Feb-2001.

 Domain servers in listed order:
    NS.UUNET.CA   142.77.1.1
    NS2.UUNET.CA   142.77.1.5

and
http://www.nsiregistry.com/cgi-bin/whois?whois_nic=drugcard-inc.net&type=dom
ain
shows
   Domain Name: DRUGCARD-INC.NET
   Registrar: TUCOWS, INC.
   Whois Server: whois.opensrs.net
   Referral URL: http://www.opensrs.org
   Name Server: NS.UUNET.CA
   Name Server: NS2.UUNET.CA
   Updated Date: 02-jan-2002

Note "Registration Service Provider" that your whois outputs.
FYI I beleive the admin contact is NDNR for *all*
the names they have registered on behalf of
their customers with Tucows, making it difficult
for those (scammed?... your word) customers to transfer away.

By the way, I also don't know where they get
their whois information from either, or what they
are up to, but from your statement below, I
would guess you do since it seems
they are your reseller.


Paul


-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Wm. Rader [mailto:ross@tucows.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 2:00 PM
To: Paul Stahura; Registrars Mail List
Subject: Re: [registrars] Fw: Renewal Scams


> We don't know where they get data from.

Might be a good idea to find out. Your RRA and RLA are rife with obligations
to ICANN, Verisign and other Registrars concerning specific performance and
conduct that doesn't go away in the event that "you don't know what a third
party reseller is up to."

> I was misinformed on the maple leaf thing I guess.
> And I'm now wondering about the rest

A pretty good history can be found via google..

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&querytime=y64xwB&q=%22domain
+registry+of+america%22

and

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&querytime=y64xwB&q=%22domain
+registry+of+canada%22

> were they a Tucows reseller at one time?

At one point yes.

-rwr