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Re: [nc-budget] An association under French law 1901
My concerns on this relate to language. While I greatly admire the ability
of Elizabeth and others to work in what is for them a foreign language, I do
not pretend to be able to work in French, Chines, Spanish or any of the
other major languages of the world. For better or for worse, English is
the language of the Internet, of ICANN, of business and of my constituency.
It is important that any constitution or governing jurisdiction of any NC
body be intelligible to English speakers.
Since English is the common language of the Internet I believe that we no
option but to focus on English speaking jurisdictions under which we might
register an organisation responsible for managing NC/DNSO funds. This
allows for a lot of options. Singapore, India, Anguillia, Australia,
Canada, South Africa, UK, etc. are just some of the different jurisdictions
accessible to English speakers and in which we might consider registering a
body to manage NC or DNSO funds. However, since France does not use
English for legal purposes, IMHO it is not a suitable jurisdiction under
which to estsablish an organisation responsible for managing DNSO or NC
funds.
erica
---- Original Message -----
From: "Dany Vandromme" <vandrome@renater.fr>
To: "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@verisign.com>
Cc: <nc-budget@dnso.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:06 PM
Subject: RE: [nc-budget] An association under French law 1901
> >My biggest concerns with the requirements under French law are 1.5, 1.6
and
> >1.7. I believe those are requirements that could be burdensome to us and
> >thereby add costs that I don't think we would have in other
jurisdictions.
>
> -
> 1.5 does not hold: Activity subjected to tax law only in the non prof
> corp sells services. If income is made of voluntary donation, there
> is tax exemption
> 1.6 and 1.7 provides only flexibility, no extra expenses. Everything
> has to be written in the by-law.
> -
>
> >Chuck
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Erica Roberts [mailto:erica.roberts@bigpond.com]
> >Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 7:43 AM
> >To: Elisabeth Porteneuve; nc-budget@dnso.org; rogerc@netsol.com
> >Subject: Re: [nc-budget] An association under French law 1901
> >
> >
> >Its good to hear that we have options. As I see it, the main problem of
> >setting up in France is the language problem. My French is not good and
I
> >would be unable to operate within a French language constitution.
> >
> >It may be worth considering setting up in Australia. The law here is
> >somewhere between US and UK law and it is easy to set up a not for profit
as
> >a legal entity. Another option is to set up a company in Anguillia.
This
> >is a British dependancy, stable, and a tax free jurisdiction. I
understand
> >it is easy to set up a company on-line for, I believe, a cost of around
> >$us1000 and to establish associated banking arrangements.
> >
> >erica.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Elisabeth Porteneuve" <Elisabeth.Porteneuve@cetp.ipsl.fr>
> >To: <nc-budget@dnso.org>; <rogerc@netsol.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 12:14 PM
> >Subject: [nc-budget] An association under French law 1901
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Colleagues, it is a follow up of our Marina del Rey meeting
> > > held on Thursday 16 November, 07:15 in Roger's suite.
> > >
> > > Elisabeth
> > > --
> > > NB. The original message from Roger, quoting Mike Roberts DNSO
Accounting
> > > is attached at the end.
> > >
> > > Forming a not for profit association under French law
> > > "la loi du 1er juillet 1901 et le decret du 16 aout 1901".
> > >
> > > A. General
> > >
> > > The law 1901 is explicitly dedicated for not for profit associations.
> > > It is extremely flexible, and is used in France for various purposes.
> > > The spectra ranges from associations of school's parents managing
> > > minimal budget with no staff to non for profit association of banks,
> > > with hundreds of employees. Approximately one million associations
> > > in France use law 1901 framework. The European Academic and Research
> > > Network, BITNET sister-network, was operationg in Europe in late
1980's
> > > using French law 1901, with the international Board (Chair in
Danemark,
> > > Vice-Chair in Israel), and staff (Manager from Belgium, engeneers
> > > from France, Italy and India/British Commonwealth).
> > >
> > > A non for profit using law 1901 is defined in its Status, which shall
> > > be drafted accordingly to its purposes and composition, and include:
> > > 1.1. Duration (may be limited in time, renewable periodically)
> > > 1.2. Registration place
> > > 1.3. Membership (may be open to individuals or moral persons, i.e.
> > > institutions; no requirement for French or European Union
> > > citizenship; the criteria for various membership such as full
> > > members or observers shall be described in Status of
Association)
> > > 1.4. Resources (membership fees as well as donations, either from
> > > public or private institutions or individuals)
> > > 1.5. Fiscal regime (VAT, taxes on company benefits if any)
> > > 1.6. Structure (very flexible, usually Board of Directors,
> > > General Manager, and General Assembly; the composition of
> > > Board and its renewal are defined in Status, the General
> > > Manager is a non voting member of the Board; the powers of
> > > the Board and its Chair are defined in Status as well,
> > > it include annual budget, work plan, recruitment plan,
> > > finances and accounting, rules for member's acceptance and
> > > revocation, and any other business as it see fits; the annual
> > > GA meeting is mandatory; the mandate of General Manager
> > > is defined in Status)
> > > 1.7. The staff of non for profit association is submitted
> > > to the common French rule for employment (such as packages
> > > for retirement or medical insurance).
> > >
> > > To declare a non for profit using law 1901, the following shall
> > > be accomplished:
> > > 2.1. Status shall be written (either using any of standard
> > > examples provided in loi 1901 books, or adapted carefully
> > > to the desired purposes)
> > > 2.2. Declaration at the prefecture of the Registration place,
> > > then subsequent public record and number in the French
> > > Journal Officiel (JO). The declaration may be accomplished
> > > by a delegate from Board, the cost is 290 FF. Within 2 weeks
> > > such a declaration is recorded in the JO, and the association
> > > acquire a legal status. Once the legal status established,
> > > the association is ready to run its business, including
> > > an opening of a business bank account (no restrictions on
> > > currency, may be in dollars US).
> > >
> > > B. Proposal for the DNSO
> > >
> > > AFNIC is in the process to move its offices to a new place in
> > > Saint Quentin en Yvelines (Versailles area). The buildings place
> > > has been rented, it will be refurbished in January, operations
> > > starting on 1 February 2001. The building place is larger than
> > > necessary for AFNIC purposes, and the independent entrance with
> > > 100 square meters has been granted to the DNSO from the Saint-Quentin
> > > economic area. The Saint Quentin grant covers one year of office
rental,
> > > equivalent to 20,000 USD, as well as city taxes exemption.
> > > AFNIC is co-located in the same building, with its bunker for servers,
> > > with secure and redundant high speed connectivity, and the high
> > > quality professional engineers service operation a TLD registry.
> > > AFNIC legal counsel, who drafted our law 1901 Status, may provide
> > > a help to draft the similar for the DNSO.
> > > Some preliminary contacts has been established with an independent
> > > accountant, willing to work for the DNSO on consulting base,
> > > and an independent manager willing to ensure the current
> > > professional service, with the help of AFNIC in back office.
> > > To be completed a half-time dedicated Technical Officer is needed for
> > > the dnso.org server and related services.
> > > The DNSO managing secretariat may start its operations very easily.
> > >
> > >
> > > --original message from Roger, quoting Mike Roberts DNSO Accounting--
> > > From owner-nc-budget@dnso.org Fri Nov 3 16:02 MET 2000
> > > Message-ID:
> ><3309B573228FD411AF4500D0B784A148AA0EE4@netsol-nic-ex01.prod.netsol.com>
> > > From: "Cochetti, Roger" <rogerc@netsol.com>
> > > To: nc-budget@dnso.org
> > > Subject: [nc-budget] AGENDA
> > > Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 09:58:36 -0500
> > >
> > > 1. Review Voluntary Funding Program
> > >
> > > 2. Review P{rofessional Services Selection Plans
> > >
> > > 3. Review Disposition of ICANN-administered funds
> > >
> > > 4. Other matters (see below)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mike Roberts [mailto:roberts@icann.org]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 12:23 PM
> > > To: Ken Stubbs
> > > Cc: rogerc@netsol.com; schroeder@icann.org; ajm@icann.org;
> > > touton@icann.org
> > > Subject: DNSO Accounting
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken -
> > >
> > > In the course of the preparation of our annual financial statements
> > > by Bremer and Hockenberg, our accountants, and the annual audit by
> > > KPMG, Diane and I were informed that the current informal "trust
> > > account" treatment of DNSO funds by ICANN staff is not a permitted
> > > practice under current accounting principles and practices for
> > > non-profits. In order for ICANN staff to get out of trouble, the
> > > funds currently residing in our corporate bank account must go
> > > somewhere else by the end of the calendar year.
> > >
> > > I discussed the situation briefly with Roger when Joe and I had lunch
> > > with him last week in DC, since Verisign has made its own funding
> > > offer to the DNSO.
> > >
> > > It is up to the Names Council to make a decision about the handling
> > > of the funds it raises, but I see three reasonable alternatives,
> > > listed below in order of my personal preference.
> > >
> > > (1) Make accounting a responsibility of a host organization for the
> > > DNSO. This is what the ASO and PSO do, and there are certainly
> > > plenty of large corporations in a position to take on the host
> > > responsibilities for the DNSO, in the US or elsewhere, in a similar
> > > fashion. If the burden is considered significant, the responsibility
> > > can be rotated, as it is in the ASO/PSO. This brings you within an
> > > established organizational framework where, as the saying goes,
> > > "routine things are handled routinely."
> > >
> > > (2) Ask the ICANN Board to include a revenue and expense item in the
> > > annual ICANN budget for the DNSO, and to include the necessary staff
> > > effort to administer the funds as well. This also puts you in an
> > > established organizational framework, with annual audits, but would
> > > require that your activities be conducted according to whatever
> > > policies the Names Council and the Board mutually worked out. Since
> > > the DNSO already operates under provisions of the Bylaws, this
> > > shouldn't be a big deal.
> > >
> > > (3) Use the DNSO unincorporated association account you have opened
> > > as the basis for all your accounting and adopt whatever procedures
> > > and controls on the account that satisfy the NC's own accountability
> > > requirements. This is the "roll your own" solution and works - if a
> > > Names Council member is willing to ride herd on the procedures and
> > > whomever is doing the accounting.
> > >
> > > Sorry to hassle you about administrivia, but we have to get this
> > > cleaned up soon.
> > >
> > > - Mike
> > >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dany VANDROMME | Directeur du GIP RENATER
>
> Reseau National pour la Technologie, l'Enseignement et la Recherche
>
> | ENSAM
> Tel : +33 (0)1 53 94 20 30 | 151 Boulevard de l'Hopital
> Fax : +33 (0)1 53 94 20 31 | 75013 Paris
> E-mail: Dany.Vandromme@renater.fr | FRANCE
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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