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RE: [council] Request to fellow Councilors for input and suggestions to WHOIS Workshop Planning Committee

Tom, thanks for your comments, and Tony, for yours.

As someone who's full time job is focused on Internet and e-commerce issues
I confess to having extreme caution about global regimes, as we know them today.

Policy makers, regardless of where they are, are challenged by needing to know more of the technology
and its capabilities. This is not a criticism of governments, since of course, it is also the private sector challenge, as we seek to keep pace with the rapid changes of technology. 

The definition of what is a database does indeed vary from country to country.  Perhaps the take away of this is that this is also a topic worth discussion in the Workshops.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Harris [mailto:harris@cabase.org.ar]
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 12:45 PM
To: Thomas Keller; Cade,Marilyn S - LGCRP; council@dnso.org
Cc: 'Mike Roberts (E-mail)'; 'Dan Halloran (E-mail)'; sabine@denic.de;
Subject: Re: [council] Request to fellow Councilors for input and
suggestions to WHOIS Workshop Planning Committee

These are interesting comments!

Perhaps I can share a strange development
of affairs with you. Argentina has a personal
data privacy protection law in place. It has
now created a Directorate where databases
containing personal data must be duly registered.

The authorities recently visited our Association and
informed us that the obligation to register databases
is not confined to those databases that list personal
data for third parties to access, e.g. such as credit
bureau services, but it applies to each and every
database containing personal data - such is the
case of payroll, customer, supplier, employee, etc.
databases collected in any format, even non-digital.
A yearly fee of 30 dollars is applicable to each
registration, and each database is a separate
registration, even if a company has a hundred
databases. Additionally, obligations to ensure
databases are not hacked into must be complied
with, and also any new database that evolves from
the combination of existing (registered) databases
will require permission from the Directorate before
it is produced.

This is an example of how a well intentioned law can
evolve into a nightmare if officials become "creative"
about it.

To get to Milton's comment:
"Europe and the rest of the world will be
dragged into a globalized regime applied to the Internet
where their national laws have no application"

Perhaps this would not be so bad after all...

Tony Harris

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Keller" <tom@schlund.de>
To: "'Cade,Marilyn S - LGCRP'" <mcade@att.com>; <council@dnso.org>
Cc: "'Mike Roberts (E-mail)'" <mmr@darwin.ptvy.ca.us>; "'Dan Halloran
(E-mail)'" <halloran@icann.org>; <sabine@denic.de>; <tom@schlund.de>
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 12:51 PM
Subject: AW: [council] Request to fellow Councilors for input and
suggestions to WHOIS Workshop Planning Committee

Dear Marilyn,

thank you and the planning comittee for giving us the possibility of
input please find mine below.

Having followed the privately organised phone calls on whois as well as
reading the
concurrent mailing list I heard a lot of opinions why this or that user
group MUST
have full access to whois data or that certain user groups MUST have
protection in form of anonymous whois output. There seems to be no limit
for the
diversity of views but if read careful one will discover that all made
proposals no
matter whether it is from the FTC and talks about the necessity of law
to protect end users or it is from the PTO saying that law enforcement
conducted privately
by ip owners is imperative because of the latency of the legal system or
to complete the
picture the demand of groups like EPIC which advocate the protection of
personal data in
light of the right of freedom of speech are focused on ONE special
market place in the world.

Apparently there is some fighting going on in one specific country about
how and to
what extend contact data, especially personalized contact data can/must
be distributed
and whois is the battlefield thought it could be every other database
containing such
data as well.

Ironically these questions and debates are not worth a minute thinking
in other parts
of the world because there are well established laws in place which very
clearly identify who
can do what under which circumstances. Unfortunately all this local laws
are not
necessarily in sync so that there are a whole lot of definitions and
regulations which
contradict each other on the same subject but are totally valid inside
the particular
countries. For more information on the differences have a look at the
following URL:


To be more specific a good example for the diversity of the
implementation of data protection restrictions are the whois services of
the ccTLDs:


displays the registrant name and his email address to the

displays the registrants name and address but not the email
address and telefonnumber to the public.


displays just the registrants name to the public if the
is a non trading individual.

This very clearly documents that cultural diversity has led to different
solutions for the same problem always depending on the specific
background, traditions and history of each country.

To make things short I would like to suggest that the WHOIS Workshop
committee gives some time for consiteration of the question whether
there is a need for a one fits all whois solution which reflects all
international data protection laws and traditions and is not in conflict
with paragraph 2.3.3 and  3.7.2 of the ICANN RAA.


2.3.3 not apply standards, policies, procedures or practices
unjustifiably, or inequitably and not single out Registrar for disparate

treatment unless justified by substantial and reasonable cause.

3.7.2 Registrar shall abide by applicable laws and governmental

or whether the world might be better of with a whois approach on a basis
local jurisdiction.




Thomas Keller

Domain Services
Schlund + Partner AG
Brauerstrasse 48               Tel  +49-721-91374-534
76135 Karlsruhe, Germany               Fax  +49-721-91374-215
http://www.schlund.de                  tom@schlund.de

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-council@dnso.org [mailto:owner-council@dnso.org] Im Auftrag
von Cade,Marilyn S - LGCRP
Gesendet: Montag, 9. Juni 2003 05:48
An: council@dnso.org
Cc: Mike Roberts (E-mail); Bruce Tonkin (E-mail); Dan Halloran (E-mail)
Betreff: [council] Request to fellow Councilors for input and
suggestions to WHOIS Workshop Planning Committee

Dear fellow councilors

The WHOIS Workshop Planning committee, recently appointed by ICANN's
President/CEO, (see below) held its first conf. call Saturday, to
discuss planning for the Montreal workshops on WHOIS and related privacy
and other issues, as requested by ICANN's President. The committee will
host at least two more conference calls this week in order to plan the
program for the two 1/2 day workshops now scheduled for Montreal's
meeting. We began to outline the approach for the workshops on our
initial call.

Although all on the Committee are acting in their individual capacity as
appointees to the Planning Committee, the chair of the Program Committee
and the chair of the Council have agreed that I might solicit input from
fellow Councilors, and I welcome that opportunity to seek your input and

Your input and suggestions on areas to be addressed, possible experts
for presentations, and ideas about existing reports or other materials
that you might suggest as background to be provided to support and
inform the workshops would be most welcomed. To be most useful, I will
need input by Thursday, June 12. Earlier suggestions will be helpful.

You may post to me at mcade@att.com, or you may share your
recommendations/input with the full Council, if you prefer.

In addition to suggesting topics or issues to be addressed, if you
suggest a speaker, please provide email and telephone contact
information, as well as a sentence or two regarding the nature of the
topic you recommend that speaker for.  I will be provide all
contributions to the rest of the committee as inputs for their
consideration.  And, should a speaker be accepted by the Committee, it
will expedite contact to have contact details already available.

I apologize for the urgency of the request, but the Committee must move
quickly to develop the workshops in order to issue invitations to
speakers for the workshops.


Marilyn Cade

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Tonkin [mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 4:09 AM
To: council@dnso.org
Subject: [council] ICANN Announces Whois Workshop Planning Committee for

AS requested by the GNSO Council in its teleconference on 22 May 2003:

ICANN Announces Whois Workshop Planning Committee for Montréal

Marina del Rey, California USA (5 June 2003): ICANN President and CEO
Paul Twomey today announced the appointment of a Workshop Planning
Committee to help coordinate a workshop on Whois and related issues at
ICANN's meeting later this month in Montréal, Canada. The President's
Whois Workshop Committee includes the following recognized leaders in
this subject:

Elana Broitman
Marilyn Cade
Steve Crocker
Sabine Dolderer
Robin Layton
Michael Palage
George Papapavlou
Mike Roberts (Chair)
Thomas Roessler
The Whois workshop is intended to initiate a period of discussion within
the ICANN community on Whois and related privacy and other issues. The
workshop is being held in response to a request from the GNSO Council,
and in cooperation with the GAC's work program. Current plans call for a
two-part workshop, scheduled for the mornings of Tuesday, 24 June 2003,
and Wednesday, 25 June 2003.

For additional details on the ICANN meetings in Montréal, Canada (22-26
June 2003), please visit <http://www.icann.org/montreal/>.

The meetings will be hosted by the Canadian Internet Registration
Authority (CIRA). CIRA has posted additional information regarding the
area, the meeting, and local hotels at <http://www.icannmontreal.ca/>.

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